RIP Fresco.
Jacque Fresco has died
61–70 of 113 posts
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#62While Mr. Fresco idea seems very reasonable, I think his mistake is attributing altruistic traits to everyone. Not everyone is altruistic. If there's a computer system governing everything, there will be a strong incentive to build bias into it, or use for mass surveillance or even tyranny. Then, there are aspects in which radial cities would not be good: - Epidemiology: you have everyone in this nice dome sharing ob…
Would be worth a try though, wouldn't it? The main idea is also to reduce manual labour as fast as possible so more people can afford to be altruistic.
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#63You mean someone who understands the complexities of the markets and the financial system wasn't convinced by Marxism with robots? I can't imagine why.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14423470 and marked it off-topic.
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#64You mean someone who understands the complexities of the markets and the financial system wasn't convinced by Marxism with robots? I can't imagine why.
And please let's not pretend that Marxian economists are economically illiterate, which seems to be the point you're making.
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's the problem, we are only _materially_ better. It is sad we still cannot figure that out.
Yup you nailed it. In many ways like work-life balance, times are worse than the middle ages. Also material betterment doesn't scale, we can't focus on material betterment for all because until we figure out fusion and get our own Dyson Sphere going, we have finite resources.
Is this actually established? It's my understanding that the work-leisure dichotomy didn't really exist in medieval Europe. Also, considering how much of the fruit of your labour ended up supporting local and distant aristocracy, I can't imagine mental health being particularly high for a lot of people.
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
He (and Fresco) is of course talking hypothetically but as he continues: "If such a world really is technologically possible, we should cut the socialist dreamers some slack. Their fault lies not with their vision, but with their plans for achieving it." From what I understand Murphy claim that if such a dream is technologically possible their's is not the correct way. I guess main point is that sooner or later Fresc…
Property rights certainly requires central calculation and coersion, too. Look at all the activities undertaken in the name of copyright and patent enforcement. This is "property rights". Look at cable companies suing cities to not give citizens fast broadband, while they maintain their cartel. This is central enforcement. A company like Apple can be privately owned. The app store is privately owned. Facebook, Google…
Property rights also have dubious origins, and the concept deserves to be questioned, along the lines of asking what right does one man have to appropriate a certain piece of land and defend it with violence? And what of the concept of rights in general?
If one wants an alternative view of the concept of property versus possession, it's worth reading Proudhon's What Is Property?, which is a thrilling and informative read of the anarchist view, despite being a 19th century work.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/proudho...
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#67Gene Roddenberry was inspired by Fresco's ideas. A world where people could focus on personal development and nobody would have to be in this rat race anymore, enabling a higher standard of living for all people.
Jacque was a great visionary, inventor and systems thinker - he will be missed.
You should watch his documentary Future by Design [0]. He was talking about 3D printed houses, holistic transportation systems, smart cities, etc
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup you nailed it. In many ways like work-life balance, times are worse than the middle ages. Also material betterment doesn't scale, we can't focus on material betterment for all because until we figure out fusion and get our own Dyson Sphere going, we have finite resources.
>In many ways like work-life balance, times are worse than the middle ages. Is this actually established? It's my understanding that the work-leisure dichotomy didn't really exist in medieval Europe. Also, considering how much of the fruit of your labour ended up supporting local and distant aristocracy, I can't imagine mental health being particularly high for a lot of people.
* For source, I've seen Yuval Noah Harari and Peter Gray writing about it.
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
>In many ways like work-life balance, times are worse than the middle ages. Is this actually established? It's my understanding that the work-leisure dichotomy didn't really exist in medieval Europe. Also, considering how much of the fruit of your labour ended up supporting local and distant aristocracy, I can't imagine mental health being particularly high for a lot of people.
Anthropologists seem to agree* that hunter-gatherers (our ancestors, but also ones living in modern times) worked a little less than 8 hours a day. * For source, I've seen Yuval Noah Harari and Peter Gray writing about it.
As Oscar Wilde put it:
Now and then, in the course of the century, a great man of science, like Darwin; a great poet, like Keats; a fine critical spirit, like M. Renan; a supreme artist, like Flaubert, has been able to isolate himself, to keep himself out of reach of the clamorous claims of others, to stand ‘under the shelter of the wall,’ as Plato puts it, and so to realise the perfection of what was in him, to his own incomparable gain, and to the incomparable and lasting gain of the whole world. These, however, are exceptions. The majority of people spoil their lives by an unhealthy and exaggerated altruism – are forced, indeed, so to spoil them. They find themselves surrounded by hideous poverty, by hideous ugliness, by hideous starvation.
Re: Jacque Fresco has died
#70You mean someone who understands the complexities of the markets and the financial system wasn't convinced by Marxism with robots? I can't imagine why.
It's worth noting that Fresco wasn't a Marxist, and the Venus Project has tried to distance itself from the Marxists. It's also worth noting that a Communist society as Marx envisioned it takes great advantage of automation anyway, but rather than being used to cut costs in the short term, it's used so that people have to work less on the whole, leaving more time for intellectual fulfillment. And please let's not pre…