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At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

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Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain specifically whats wrong with the comment. This could be making fun of a friend. How is this harassment?

"Princess" in the UK at least would be pretty offensive in that context - I wouldn't dream of calling a colleague that.

No it wouldn't. Try spending some time further up north.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#62
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I'm actually struggling to think of a situation where it would be the done thing to call one of your colleagues "princess", be they male or female.

If they are a genuine princess (not necessarily outlandish if you live in a place which 1. still has royalty and 2. has a pretty down-to-earth one — after all we've recently learned Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands moonlights as a commercial co-pilot) — or if they come to work wearing a tiara, or if they ask you?

But when you're talking to a princess you would typically use the form Your Highness, or similar.

Anyway, I was thinking of the sorts of situations that actually turn up, on average, for most people. There are only so many princesses to go round, a tiara is highly unusual office garb, and I've never heard of anybody asking to be called "princess" in a professional capacity, at least not in white collar work such as Google. I stand by my rule of thumb. My difficulty thinking up situations was based on my experiences of being at work, which are of course unique, but not, I suspect, especially unusual.

(But if we're trying to think of unlikely possibilities, what about if Princess is your colleague's name? Though given your reply, I expect you're the sort of pedantic so-and-so who'd actually notice that I deliberately quoted it in lower case to sidestep this one.)

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#63
post #55
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ridiculous. Leave is leave; it's an employee's right that's offered in law or in their contract, and they should not be punished in any way for taking advantage of it. If the employee would otherwise exceed expectations and took paternity leave, then they still exceed expectations. If they were hired in March and worked for 40 weeks, they would not be penalized for failing to work in January or February. Leave…

> Leave is leave; it's an employee's right that's offered in law or in their contract, and they should not be punished in any way for taking advantage of it. Being rated as someone who meets expectations is not a punishment. Certainly, one has the right to exercise one's rights, but one also has a duty to acknowledge that they impact others. Someone who takes paternity leave will, mutatis mutandis, achieve less than…

>Being rated as someone who meets expectations is not a punishment.

Is that true? I seem to recall a scene from Office Space and flair about this...

Seems like they shouldn't include leave in the review at all and only review when they're working.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks simple to me: that remark was not professional, it's something you'd say to a friend, ideally one with whom you share a relationship close enough to allow for remarks like that one. If you stick to professional interactions, you'll hardly create such a problem at a workplace. The hardship begins when personal and professional relationships mix, but if a personal relationship is established it's reasonable to…

Some companies purposely have a laid-back culture. Not a 'bro' culture, but a friendly, social one - that includes jabbing and jiving. I love those beanbag-chair, not corp environments. Not everything that isn't corporate is 'unprofessional'. Wearing trainers to work was unprofessional, until it became established; now tech CEOs compete on who has the most expensive sneakers. > If HR was involved, it's because someon…

I dunno maybe I'm crazy but "jabbing and jiving" is the last thing I ever want at work.

Directness, professionalism and - yes! - impersonal conversation - is what I would generally prefer.

And as for competitive dressing. Bring back uniforms is all I can say to that.

Edit: grammar

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#65
I wonder if the 'curation' might skew folks' view. E.g. if one believes Ted is a rotten guy, one might mention all the times Ted does rotten things, but if one believes Tod is a great guy then one might just not mention the rotten things he does.

Likewise, I wonder how often this list mentions when someone casually makes a rude remark about Christianity or Judaism, or when someone puts down men, or whites, or Republicans. Maybe it does — certainly the article didn't mention any anti-right bias incidents though (unless I missed it after reading twice).

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#67
So here's the rules of this brave new world: beyond your house you're a sexless, emotionless creature without family, life outside the office, without sense of humour, without personal interests and preferences.

Be like this, and you'll get free meals, free shuttle bus and goats at company campus. And it's good for your resumé.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on the context. But yes, we all have to be really careful what we say. Not for fear of being shamed -- for fear of offending someone! Calling someone a "princess" for liking salads could easily be taken as an offense, gender aside. It's the same reason you don't just go around talking politics in the officf. Keep that kind of dialogue out of the workplace.

> Keep that kind of dialogue out of the workplace. Or freely leave until you find a place that's cool.

"Cool" for me isn't somewhere that I can say anything I want without concern for how it affects others. Cool is inclusive.

Re: At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints

#69
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know them well enough that they understand that you're joking, then it's probably okay. If you're not sure, then don't. I do have female friends at the office who might find that funny, but only because we know each other and we give each other as good as we get. The difference is that we are friends not just colleagues, which is on a different level, interpersonally.

I feel like I would prefer a more professional work environment, even if it's less funny.

Unfortunately, the problem with "professional" relationships is that they're not very good at fulfilling the social needs of humans. It's practical to keep things professional in order to avoid drama, but when you work all day and work is the main place you get to interact with other people, it can get a bit depressing. And this is partially the reason why things like "company culture" and "culture-fit" come about, but obviously it's a hard and tricky problem to solve.
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