Live data from Hacker News

Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

timdettmers.com

61–70 of 119 posts

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#61
Disclaimer: I work on Google Cloud.

I saw a lot of "should we use Cloud, no its crazy a GPU only costs $X". The key is that if you believe GPUs are going to get updated every year, and/or the best thing for ML may change (see TPU and plenty of startups with custom hardware) then suddenly buying hardware for 24? 36? months isn't as obvious.

We (and AWS and Microsoft) have K80s because Maxwell wasn't a sufficiently friendly all around part. We're all going to offer Pascal P100s and in the future V100s. The challenge for buying your own is that P100s are available now-ish and V100s may be available in less than 12 months.

Buying a P100 or similar part today doesn't mean it won't still be working in a year, but it will suddenly mean you've bought a part that now has much worse !/$ in just N months. If you have an accounting team that is spreading your $Xk over those 36 months, the reality is that you have two options: tell everyone they have to make use the old parts ("we're not buying new GPUs until it's been 36 months!") or realize you're going to get a lot less use out of them.

To be clear, the progress in this space is really impressive. And the same problem above applies to us (the cloud providers). Despite my obvious bias, if I were fired today, I'd be renting to do deep learning just based on the roadmap alone (not to mention the ability to suddenly spin up and down).

Again, Disclosure: I work on Google Cloud and want to sell you things that train ML models :).

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#62
post #60

GTX drivers become crippled when the card detects the presence of a virtual environment. This means you can't run GTX in the cloud, otherwise, cloud GPU prices would be much lower. Without the availability of GTX, we've been trying just about everything at Paperspace to bring prices down and make the cloud a viable option for GPU compute. The argument being, there are real benefits to running in the cloud like on-dem…

[deleted]

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#63
post #60

GTX drivers become crippled when the card detects the presence of a virtual environment. This means you can't run GTX in the cloud, otherwise, cloud GPU prices would be much lower. Without the availability of GTX, we've been trying just about everything at Paperspace to bring prices down and make the cloud a viable option for GPU compute. The argument being, there are real benefits to running in the cloud like on-dem…

[deleted]

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#64
post #60

GTX drivers become crippled when the card detects the presence of a virtual environment. This means you can't run GTX in the cloud, otherwise, cloud GPU prices would be much lower. Without the availability of GTX, we've been trying just about everything at Paperspace to bring prices down and make the cloud a viable option for GPU compute. The argument being, there are real benefits to running in the cloud like on-dem…

[deleted]

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#65
post #60

GTX drivers become crippled when the card detects the presence of a virtual environment. This means you can't run GTX in the cloud, otherwise, cloud GPU prices would be much lower. Without the availability of GTX, we've been trying just about everything at Paperspace to bring prices down and make the cloud a viable option for GPU compute. The argument being, there are real benefits to running in the cloud like on-dem…

Citation please for the crippled drivers?

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#66
post #60

GTX drivers become crippled when the card detects the presence of a virtual environment. This means you can't run GTX in the cloud, otherwise, cloud GPU prices would be much lower. Without the availability of GTX, we've been trying just about everything at Paperspace to bring prices down and make the cloud a viable option for GPU compute. The argument being, there are real benefits to running in the cloud like on-dem…

Citation please for the crippled drivers?

The citation is we're building a GPU cloud and have tested almost every GPU in existence :) Just kidding, here are a few examples:

http://vfio.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/vfiovga-faq.html https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2twq7q/nvidia_appare... https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvirt-users/2014-October/m...

I just quickly googled this so there are probably better sources. Some of these are old but I can tell you firsthand that this is still the case.

There are workarounds for certain hypervisors (KVM mainly) but it's very unlikely that this would be deployed in a production environment.

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#67
post #61

Disclaimer: I work on Google Cloud. I saw a lot of "should we use Cloud, no its crazy a GPU only costs $X". The key is that if you believe GPUs are going to get updated every year, and/or the best thing for ML may change (see TPU and plenty of startups with custom hardware) then suddenly buying hardware for 24? 36? months isn't as obvious. We (and AWS and Microsoft) have K80s because Maxwell wasn't a sufficiently fri…

Is this any different than advising 18 month depreciation for GPUs?

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#68
post #61

Disclaimer: I work on Google Cloud. I saw a lot of "should we use Cloud, no its crazy a GPU only costs $X". The key is that if you believe GPUs are going to get updated every year, and/or the best thing for ML may change (see TPU and plenty of startups with custom hardware) then suddenly buying hardware for 24? 36? months isn't as obvious. We (and AWS and Microsoft) have K80s because Maxwell wasn't a sufficiently fri…

The problem is that a month of GPU time on a cluster can buy you the hardware itself. If you are doing serious deep learning work it's just not cost effective at this point. If the costs come down by half or more, it may start looking viable for people who need a lot of resources.

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#69
post #32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think signs are pointing to Vega being a HPC beast. But what they really need is the software ecosystem and support, and so far that hasn't been there. So while the new hardware looks cool, I'm really waiting for an announcement that OpenCL tooling got a lot better, or that CUDA is getting first-party support from AMD, anything to tempt those customers away from nvidia.

There's a real opportunity for AMD here if NVIDIA doesn't release a consumer variant of Volta because Titan X Pascal intentionally cripples FP16 performance to drive P100 adoption. It's the same sort of nonsense they pulled with crippling FP64 performance on GTX Titan (Maxwell) to drive K20/K40/K80 adoption, but it got old a long time ago. What's more interesting is the disruptive change to the underlying programming…

Not having fast FP64 is a design decision. Space isn't free, and FP64 takes up a lot of space that could be used on delivering higher FP32 perf, which is more important for video games.

Re: Which GPU(s) to Get for Deep Learning

#70
post #14

Interestingly, AMD is claiming that their upcoming Vega Frontier Editions chips outperform Nvidia's current P100 Deep Learning chip. http://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2017/5/30f5633b-1bbf-49b7-9f...

I think signs are pointing to Vega being a HPC beast. But what they really need is the software ecosystem and support, and so far that hasn't been there. So while the new hardware looks cool, I'm really waiting for an announcement that OpenCL tooling got a lot better, or that CUDA is getting first-party support from AMD, anything to tempt those customers away from nvidia.

I am working on [dcompute](https://github.com/libmir/dcompute) which I hope will bring an equivalent experience when running on OpenCL and CUDA, and being written in D will provide all the advantages it does to writing kernels as it does with writing host code (with of course the ability to share compile time information across host and device). I believe that this levelling of the playing field will let the best hardware win.

If you have any question, please ask!

Post reply on HN