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Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#61
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

u mad, bro?

The same thing happened in the 90's, my coworker's sister got a "Certificate in HTML" and promptly found a job for $80k in 1998. These people wash out, I've been burned enough times by bootcamp grads that I won't hire them anymore

I've never found myself not knowing what I should do, or threatened by a hiring/skills bubble.

When I stopped feeling like I was getting anywhere with front-end I started to take on more back-end projects and sell myself as a full-stack developer.

I've never been in a situation where I've felt "man, I really should have gotten a CS degree": but what do I know; I'm just a web developer.

Maybe we're not talking about web developers?

No advanced engineering skills have been required to make the frontends/backends/architect a system for Fortune 500s and local businesses that I've been involved with. (I'm speaking of things I would have learned in school with CS and math principles had I been able to get past CS 101).

-- college dropout with successful programming career.

Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did my undergrad at U. of Michigan, and my master's at NYU. I would highly recommend both programs, although there are many great ones out there. I probably have a list of ~30 schools that I think would be excellent for a master's in CS with a focus on machine learning (although it is worth considering a master's in Data Science, as this makes sense if ML is your primary interest). I am happy to give more targeted…

On a general level, did you or your classmates general fund these masters degrees themselves? And what is the career path / expected compensation after completion of program? Asking as a web dev with only a few years experience but making ok startup-world money. I'm curious, being interested in such a route but also a little older and trying to catch up financially after a pre-tech career.

I believe it is similar compensation as a software engineer with a specialty (front end, data engineering, databases, etc.). I would not recommend this career path to anyone that is in it for the money, but rather to do it because they find machine learning personally fulfilling. These other specialties can be personally fulfilling as well, and many of my close friends have a specialty that is not machine learning and are very happy with their career.

Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#63
Just like you use socketio api without knowing about tcp ip or network routing protocols. You can treat machine leaning as an api which does things. You don't need to take a machine leaning class. Just treat it as an api.

And you never know, you might be already using some api which does machine learning.

Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#64

In Feb 2015 I quit my job as a front end developer to learn more about machine learning. First, I went through the Recurse Center, which is a 3 month program sort of like a writing retreat for programmers. I learned a lot about Python and AWS in that time, and got an internship as a data engineer. In that Fall, I started a computer science master's. I've taken mostly courses in machine learning including: Machine Lea…

inspiring story, great job.

Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#65

Dan Shiffman created a Youtube playlist titled "Intelligence and Learning", which might be a good place to start. This is the link to his channel https://www.youtube.com/user/shiffman

Thanks! There is a live session now (started 34 minutes ago), as every friday. He's apparently coding a Minesweeper. It seems like a really good resource.

Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#67
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true and harmful to the progress of the field: http://www.fast.ai/2017/03/17/not-commoditized-no-phd/

While it may not require a Ph.D, effective use of Machine Learning does require Ph.D like scientific skills. Even the link you mention talks about reading research papers and building good models does require scientific rigor.

Hmm... for this statement, I guess it depends on what you would classify as "machine learning".

From what I've read on machine learning, a lot of the more basic techniques includes statistical methods (linear regression, logical regression, random forests, Bayesian statistics) that more or less are taught at master's degree level statistics courses at most, not doctorate level. If I remember right basic linear regression even showed up in stat 101.

I realize that many of these techniques can't solve some of the problems the deeper, more complex machine learning techniques can (for which your Ph.D statement might be right). But not every problem needs a very complex solution.

Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#68
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

u mad, bro?

The same thing happened in the 90's, my coworker's sister got a "Certificate in HTML" and promptly found a job for $80k in 1998. These people wash out, I've been burned enough times by bootcamp grads that I won't hire them anymore

About how long did it take for the washout to occur?

Wanted to know for my own financial planning.

Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#69
post #42

A lot of bootcamp / self-trained devs went into front-end JS for the money. Now that it's saturated, time to move onto the next buzz word. A foundation of CS fundamentals will still be lacking.

I'm a self trained dev (aka horrible person?) who's spent the last 8 years doing back end dev work - mostly C#, Java, Python and now Scala in everything from SV startups to a government research lab. Either I'm an outlier, or you're overestimating the importance of those cherished fundamentals (which can be picked up independently of a degree anyhow).

Re: Ask HN: How can a front-end developer dive into machine learning?

#70
There are a few ways to go about this.

One is very programmer heavy. There's a lot of data processing that goes into machine learning, but you can't quite separate the two. Often, the programmer who prepares and processes the data needs to write the code that actually runs the model and parses the result, and this means you benefit from more understanding of machine learning. That role is most likely the best one available to programmers who don't have much mathematics background in this area.

To really get into machine learning itself as a data scientist, though... I do think it requires some math. There's a reason a large percentage of people who work in this field have an MS or PhD in a very quantitative field. And I don't just mean algorithm designers - to really be able to explain the difference between naive bayes, random forest, neural nets, and logistic regression, it helps enormously to have a background in math.

To illustrate this, I've taken two coursera courses on data science. They were both excellent, but approached from different angles. Bill Howe's data science class involved an exercise to use a random forest to do some classification, but the focus was on calling the scikit-learn library. We did of course review the algorithm, but not in mathematical depth.

Andrew Ng's course on machine learning got into implementing the algorithms (with a language called Octave, which honestly I didn't like much, but that's a completely different topic where plenty of people would disagree with me). To do that class, honestly, I'd just ask if the terms "vector calculus", "matrix of second order partial derivatives" or "logistic function" mean something to you. It's ok if you can't define these things on the spot, but was there a time when you could? You can get up to speed, but I'd say if you haven't taken basic calculus through differential equations (with linear algebra), then you won't be able to understand this material.

I've been impressed with how well people learn on their own, picking up a lot of math as they go along. And I don't think you need to be able to implement these algorithms yourself to use them meaningfully. But if you're going to be deciding what kind of model to use, even if you're using libraries to do it (and most people who can implement these algorithms would still use a library), I think that you do need to be able to describe how a neural net work vs random forests vs logistic regression vs naive bayes. There is a side of this that is very math-y as well.

On the bright side, we live in an era of amazingly available learning material. I personally think a dedicated person can probably learn calc, linear algebra, and differential equations through web-based coursework now.

SO overall, I'd say - start on the data side as much as possible, leveraging your programming skills. While doing this, keep getting more exposure to ML algorithms, and make sure you are taking a coursera or other web-based class on the side.

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