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SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

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Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#61

I am completely baffled that Intel did not do this. I guess they figured ATOM is just a crappy little side-project processor, not one of the big boys.

They basically did it's called Larrabee and it is now being transformed into a server product.

It looks to me like Larrabee's successor is is going after the high-performance computing market, not the server market. Why else would they devote so much die area to having loads of wide floating-point SIMD units?

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#62
post #54
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a lot more technical detail: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3768/seamicro-announces-sm1000... Per CPU (8 per board): Atom Z530 (1.6GHz, Silverthorne) US15 chipset (Poulsbo) 2GB DDR2 Per board: 4 ASICs to virtualize IO 2x PCIe x16 connectors " Each hop takes 8 microseconds ", so good enough for (most/all?) IO but not good enough for memory. No ECC of course, it being a non-server Intel chip. Each single cored CP…

So, it's just a tight packing of a 512 netbook's boards in a one box. I thought it is a 512-core system. Oh, I'm such a moron. Nothing to see here.

No, no: each board has 8 CPU/chipet/DIMM(s?) (latter on the other side of the board) with 4 ASICs each handing all the rest of a motherboard's IO, virtualizing it (e.g. each core sees 4 virtual SATA drives). That's why each board needs 2 x16 PCIe connections, the backplane has a fancy supercomputer style torus topology interconnect, and you can put up to 64 physical disks in front. Lots of Ethernet out the back and there's an FPGA system for the backplane, which might be due to the small number of units but will give them lots of flexibility.

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#63
Performance per watt depends on the computer and the workload. It's not apparent from the SPECint benchmarks they show in the article, but chips like Atom are better than beefy server chips for some server workloads, and worse for others, when measuring performance per watt. Here's a paper from Berkeley's RAD lab which tries two Atom processors and a Xeon on several different server workloads, and compares their performance per watt:

http://www.sigops.org/sosp/sosp09/papers/hotpower_10_chun.pd...

The tl;dr version is that what you really want are hybrid datacenters, where you can assign various workloads to different types of machines, and use each machine type for what it's best suited to do.

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#64
post #43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I have a question. If I wanted to advertise to /technical/ people in your area, where would I do it? Note: I'm not really interested in business people; I want *NIX enthusiasts who are /not/ spammers, who can write English and are capable of running a Linux box that won't get compromised, and who don't need much help from me to run the thing.

Why not just buy google ads for technical keywords and target only the desired countries?

For my ad money, I like display ads rather than pay per click ads... I am just trying to say 'Hey, I exist' and pay per click is usually not a very cost-effective way of doing that.

(now, most of my advertising 'budget' was spent on, say, writing a book... but per-click ads are the opposite of what I want.)

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#65
post #43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I have a question. If I wanted to advertise to /technical/ people in your area, where would I do it? Note: I'm not really interested in business people; I want *NIX enthusiasts who are /not/ spammers, who can write English and are capable of running a Linux box that won't get compromised, and who don't need much help from me to run the thing.

Why not just buy google ads for technical keywords and target only the desired countries?

Do you click ads?

I don't even /see/ them.

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#66
post #56

I am completely baffled that Intel did not do this. I guess they figured ATOM is just a crappy little side-project processor, not one of the big boys.

Some see the move to many-core ATOM servers , as a move to put financial pressure on intel(since ATOMs are cheap). And this move helps the future of ARM based servers , since ARM is more similar to ATOM than to XEON.

There's going to be limits to the amount of pressure as long as Intel doesn't offer ECC for any Atom variety microarchitecture. One of the articles I read said that they thought about using an AMD chip but it wasn't going to ship soon enough. I can see them hearing from their customers (would be and actual) that they'd buy more if they offered ECC and SeaMicro offering an AMD based box in the future.

I wonder how Atom specific the ASIC is....

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#67
post #57
post #36

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - Alan Kay This news is yet another data point that developers will need to hack concurrency sooner than later, as a core skill in one's professional repertoire. Off to learn Stackless PyPy, Clojure, Scala, etc...

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - Alan Kay Where are Sun, SGI, Cray, etc now?

The Cray Jaguar is the fastest on the TOP500.

I'm actually in Chippewa Falls at the moment. :-)

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#68
post #40
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I have a question. If I wanted to advertise to /technical/ people in your area, where would I do it? Note: I'm not really interested in business people; I want *NIX enthusiasts who are /not/ spammers, who can write English and are capable of running a Linux box that won't get compromised, and who don't need much help from me to run the thing.

You can search for local linux/debian user groups.

yeah, that's the sort of thing I'm looking for... but often it's hard to tell from the webpages which ones are popular, and which ones are just two guys.

Hm. But yeah, I should play more with LUGs in poor parts of the world; I've tried to give away stuff to local LUGs around here (in the SF bay area) but they usually have a setup they like already, and other providers falling over themselves to give them free crap.

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#69
post #59
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - Alan Kay Where are Sun, SGI, Cray, etc now?

Is Apple just an anomaly? Also, Sun was bought partially so that Oracle could offer a complete software/hardware package, so I'm not sure your point stands. The others had great runs with great hardware/software... they just didn't survive to the next generation.

Apple, Google, and Microsoft don't build all their own hardware -- not in the same sense as Sun, SGI, and Cray. Apple uses Intel and ARM chips (even the A4 is a Cortex A8 with a PowerVR SGX). Apple is builds the best cases for their hardware, but the hardware is all pretty standard.

Re: SeaMicro drops an atom bomb on the server industry

#70

Interesting in terms of technology, but of no interest to me as someone who does colocation and web servers for my clients, especially since they almost all use traditional RDBMSes like MySQL and Postgres. The Atom is too underpowered and too RAM limited for individual systems - you would do better in most cases with a 2x quadcore setup and 32-64GB RAM combined with OpenVZ or Solaris Zones. Lack of ECC = automatic di…

I would rethink that if I were you. What if you started to provide virtual private servers on one of these boxes instead of offering colocation? I think this innovation makes VPS solutions even more efficient than they are today.

hm. the price data would show it's not more efficient in terms of capital. $140K, right? before disk? for 1024GiB ram and 512 CPUs. with my current setup, I end up paying about $1900 for 32GiB ram and 8 (/much/ more powerful) CPUs before disk. So, I'd need 32 of those puppies, at a much more reasonable $60,800 - it would give me half as many CPUs, but, uh, from my experience a atom core is less than half a opteron core.

how much power would that eat? in my setup, we'd be talking about 3840 watts, each one of those single socket 8 core boxes eats about one amp of 120v, give or take. they say 4w per server, so that'd be 2048 watts for their solution; so yeah, it will take quite a while to make up the price difference.

Now there are some reasons why having your own physical server is better than having a virtual slice, but many of those reasons have to do with I/O, and as these boxes don't come with local storage... so at least for my workloads, they still can't beat the nice, standard opteron G34 systems I throw together in my workshop.

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