Interesting findings, but really nothing here new about the evolutionary biology. This is just another example of Zahavian adaptations, aka handicap principle, "which explains the evolution of characteristics, behaviors or structures that appear contrary to the principles of Darwinian evolution in that they appear to reduce fitness and endanger individual organisms. Evolved by sexual selection, these act as signals of the status of the organism, functioning to e. g. attract mates."
When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
61–70 of 79 posts
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#62The title reminds me of a species we're all familiar with where the females are adopting increasingly high standards for mates based in obsolete evolutionary preferences which have no applicability to fitness in the current environment, and where the skills relevant to survival in the current environment are ironically often seen as unattractive by the females, and males who cultivate these skills often don't have th…
and guys prefer women with large breasts and wide hips, both unnecessary due to baby formula and C-Sections. Doesn't change the fact that preferring those traits are ingrained in us due to thousands of years of evolution and aren't changing any time soon. Worry about what you have control over you'll be happier
Breastfeeding is much better for the baby's development than formula
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#63I see something in common between those birds and the modern western females. We will see soon how well nice look can compete with artificial intelligence for survival.
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#64> It may even lead to extinction.
So natural selection.
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the author of this article or his sources severely misunderstand natural selection and the special case of sexual selection. The author of this article is an Evolutionary Biology researcher at Yale. It would be really weird if he severely misunderstood natural selection.
Fair enough. I guess I should have said the the text of the article uses an outdated, narrow, and confusing definition of natural selection, which is a great way to sow uncertainty and doubt about how evolution works. Sexual selection definitely produces some interesting effects, but it's still a form of natural selection. This article portrays it as the opposite. I think it's far easier to understand the outcomes of…
> The whole idea that sexual selection is somehow at odds with natural selection instead of just being one of many selection pressures, is deeply confused.
Well, sexual selection is distinguishable, because it's not about the environment or other species, but about interactions between sexes. I mean, consider ducks. How does the penis-vagina arms race have any relevance to overall fitness? Indeed, it seems more like a bug in the sexual reproduction app.
But on the other hand, human consciousness and language are arguably products of sexual selection. And they have increased fitness. So maybe it's most useful to consider sexual selection as just another source of variation, grist for the mill of natural selection overall.
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#66I remember once from undergrad the saying '"obvious" is the most dangerous word in mathematics.' Seeing how something could be true is dramatically different from identifying and defending that it is true. It's dangerously easy to say "oh yea, makes sense, natural selection happens by mating so if mates choose club wings, I get it. Obvious." But Prum's trying to go a step further, and test just how far out of balance…
it seems to me like the article is more about elucidating beauty as a mechanism of decadence than an attempt to upend natural selection as a core component of the theory of evolution. the article basically says that beauty (however defined for a given species) can be both a selective and maladaptive pressure, where conventionally it's thought of only as a selective pressure.
species die out because of maladaptive pressures. that doesn't contradict the theory of evolution and natural selection's role in it.
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#67I remember once from undergrad the saying '"obvious" is the most dangerous word in mathematics.' Seeing how something could be true is dramatically different from identifying and defending that it is true. It's dangerously easy to say "oh yea, makes sense, natural selection happens by mating so if mates choose club wings, I get it. Obvious." But Prum's trying to go a step further, and test just how far out of balance…
Yeah but his whole thesis in thus article is based on the assumption that efficient flight is important for the survival of this species.
If we said 40 millions years ago - protowhales cannot run as fast because their mates really like the membranes between their legs this would still be technically true.
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#68The human females find sense of humor attractive. That requires development of big brain. Think how shitty big brain is - it soaks up nutrition, takes insane amounts of protein to develop, makes the infant helpless for 12 years, diverts resources from muscle mass and bone, makes easier death during childbirth and permanently diminishes the ability of the mother to gather food.
This species is doomed by the chasing of this superficial attractiveness.
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#69The human females find sense of humor attractive. That requires development of big brain. Think how shitty big brain is - it soaks up nutrition, takes insane amounts of protein to develop, makes the infant helpless for 12 years, diverts resources from muscle mass and bone, makes easier death during childbirth and permanently diminishes the ability of the mother to gather food. This species is doomed by the chasing of…
I can't tell if this comment is being serious about not seeing the other advantages of the bigger brain for the survival of the specie.
Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival
#70The human females find sense of humor attractive. That requires development of big brain. Think how shitty big brain is - it soaks up nutrition, takes insane amounts of protein to develop, makes the infant helpless for 12 years, diverts resources from muscle mass and bone, makes easier death during childbirth and permanently diminishes the ability of the mother to gather food. This species is doomed by the chasing of…
I can't tell if this comment is being serious about not seeing the other advantages of the bigger brain for the survival of the specie.
Take a wild guess. Especially in context of the article which says how badly it fucks the wings without giving any information how the species interacts with their wider ecosystem.