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Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

economist.com

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Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#61

Post by ams6110 »

simias wrote: post #54
ams6110 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is indeed a reason, that is women are naturally/biologically caretakers and nurturers. Women are more trusted and accepted as nurses and caregivers than men. Many women would be uncomfortable or refuse to have a male caregiver help bathe or dress them.

This "naturally/biologically" is the crux of the issue really, where does nature stop and society begin? And even if nature biases one way or an other, does it explain the measured discrepancy completely? Am I to believe that there's basically a shortage of "nurturing" men, as there is a shortage of technically inclined women? We also see that the proportions vary very significantly between countries, so clearly ther…

Sure, individuals are individuals.

I was addressing the larger question of why not many men become nurses. Not saying that those who do are not nurturing and good at what they do.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#62

Post by SaintGhurka »

thrownblown wrote: post #30
markwaldron wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You state that the education system taught you lies, and then generalize that all public schools teach lies. Did you attend every public school in the nation?

I attended a great public high school staffed by a faculty that, for the most part, actually cared about the people they raised into their community. Some of them had good intentions with their lies (Creationists), but they're still lies. Regardless, it was overflowing with lies. Especially history.

Would you mind identifying where? And when you went to school where they were teaching creationism?

I hate to challenge you on that, but really, where is this actually done in the US?

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#63

Post by danielparks »

empath75 wrote: post #12

This was from Oct 2016, btw.

Thanks. I was kind of surprised about how articulate President Trump was.

It would be nice if that were noted somewhere on the page (maybe it is on the desktop site — I'm on mobile).

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#64

Post by ams6110 »

samirillian wrote: post #34
Afforess wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Badly. Education processes are not built around learning, nor around meta-learning (learning how to learn new information). Education is still built largely around _retaining_, testing, and hoarding knowledge, without interest in discovery or the processes that created knowledge. This medieval mindset holds back much of the education system. A larger essay on many of the problems and sources of these problems: http:/…

But I don't think that was the author's intention. Uneducated would have sufficed.

I do think it's badly, particularly if you are not a college-bound student. If you're not going to college, you are a write-off in today's public education system.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#65

Post by zeteo »

Tallulah, LA is 77% African American [1]. I'm surprised The Economist would publish this kind of victim-blaming about a very marginalized community:

> men like those of Tallulah [...] lack the resources of training, of imagination and of opportunity to adapt to the new demands

> poorly educated men are often much worse at things such as showing up on time and being pleasant to customers

> criminality, alas, remains an option for men of all skill sets

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallulah,_Louisiana

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#66

Post by Fezzik »

justinzollars wrote: post #35
trendia wrote: post #4

I hoped reading this would provide insight, but instead it only offered some random eassywriter's disdain of people different from him/herself.

I work with a dude who is 50 from Michigan. It's amazing to hear stories of what an American lifestyle in the 70's and 80's was like. With 40,000 income he could buy a house, a vacation house in northern Michigan, a boat and two great vacations a year. Its hard to admit standards of living are decreasing. There is def a lot of blame to go around. I agree one should not be disdainful of people who are different. This…

accounting for inflation, the buying power of $40k in 1980 is the equivalent of $118k today... enough to buy a house, a vacation house, a boat, and multiple vacations year in most regions. Maybe the percentage of the population making this amount has decreased, I'm not sure, but the buying power is roughly the same.

And if you're going back to 1970: $40k in 1970 dollars could buy you $250k of stuff today.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#67

Post by simias »

ams6110 wrote: post #61
simias wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "naturally/biologically" is the crux of the issue really, where does nature stop and society begin? And even if nature biases one way or an other, does it explain the measured discrepancy completely? Am I to believe that there's basically a shortage of "nurturing" men, as there is a shortage of technically inclined women? We also see that the proportions vary very significantly between countries, so clearly ther…

Sure, individuals are individuals. I was addressing the larger question of why not many men become nurses. Not saying that those who do are not nurturing and good at what they do.

Well you were saying that the only answer was of a biological nature, I was pointing out that while it probably factors one way or an other it's a bit presumptuous to say that it's the only reason.

In particular your example: "Many women would be uncomfortable or refuse to have a male caregiver help bathe or dress them." I think there's a massive cultural component to this, rather than some innate behavior. And the fact that there are many male gynecologists show that many women aren't that picky with their intimacy...

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#68

Post by devonkim »

ams6110 wrote: post #37
krath94 wrote: post #19

"Although there is no reason in theory why men could not become nurses or care-home assistants, few do." This is true, but why is it that the shortage of women in technology fields is attributed to them not being accepted or even forced out? Maybe this isn't the general attitude, but I have certainly heard people say that woman aren't in tech as much because they feel unwelcome, whereas when talking about men in thos…

There is indeed a reason, that is women are naturally/biologically caretakers and nurturers. Women are more trusted and accepted as nurses and caregivers than men. Many women would be uncomfortable or refuse to have a male caregiver help bathe or dress them.

I'm not sure so much as a naturalistic fallacy of "women are naturally X" or "men are naturally X" should be a basis of argument as much as aggression is highly correlated with testosterone levels, and aggression is not something that is compatible with most interpersonal customer service jobs especially in healthcare and education. Those that achieve higher academic success also tend to score higher in traits such as delayed gratification and emotional expression control, and a lack of these traits thereby limits upward mobility. I can't find the recent article submitted to HN discussing these problems from the perspective of someone quite successful raised in rural Tennessee asserting that luck does play a larger role than anything else for upward mobility rather than hard work in America now.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#69

Post by jankedeen »

War. These are the men who are missing out on the great civilized purge of useless, direction-less, education-less, baby dads. Not practicable anymore. There is no great enemy, the military services don't want these problem children.

Our direction is unsustainable but nobody likes this particular historical necessity.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#70

Post by llamataboot »

arkh wrote: post #52
arcanus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I largely agree. It lost me greatly when it stated, > Few women in rich countries now need a man’s support to raise a family. (They might want it, but they don’t need it.) I'm a man, and my wife is back to work after giving birth to our child. Raising a family seems to be a massively two person job. I have absolutely no idea how anyone can manage it alone and keep their sanity and not neglect their job and child. Bla…

> I have absolutely no idea how anyone can manage it alone Not alone. The State (so, everyone paying taxes) is always here to help single parents.

What benefits accrue to single parents that you have a problem with?
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