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A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

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Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#61

Post by cyphar »

lucaspiller wrote: post #57
abalashov wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder where they source the talent and expertise with these platforms necessary to pull something like this off. I understand that's kind of a naive question—any functional state has sufficient resources to solve such problems for itself—but one does wonder. I can only assume there was extensive Chinese help. They definitely have the critical mass of engineering ecosystem for that sort of endeavour.

If you think about, the NSA, GCHQ, etc probably run similar software on their own devices to monitor employees and be able to trace back where any leaks came from. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a commercial company that sells this type of software.

> I wouldn't be surprised if there is a commercial company that sells this type of software.

BlueCoat. They're called BlueCoat. As an aside, a subdivision of Intel actually runs the internet filters for some middle eastern country (due to some chain of acquisitions). Isn't that great.

Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#62

Post by AriaMinaei »

averagewall wrote: post #37
sleepingeights wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people are insane. > And if North Korea ever does change, if the Kim family were overthrown or were to voluntarily loosen its chokehold on information, a U.S. apology for the bombing could help dispel 65 years of hate. Consider the response of white americans in the US after the Imperial Japanese bombed a military force in Pearl Harbor, with almost zero civilian casualties. It quickly became common sentiment in…

But what if they hadn't? Japan was invading most of Asia with mass killings along the lines of ISIS and the Nazis. Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them? Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people.

> Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people.

Wow, this is sounding terrifyingly similar to how suicide bombers justify their targeting of civilians. It's sad to see how easy it is for people who didn't grow up under the dogma of fundamentalist religion can still come to this way of thinking.

My friend, I implore you to think really hard about what you said, and take the time to recalibrate your moral compass. I can only hope that at some point in the future, you'll come to think that, war or not, enemy or not, killing civilians is bad. There is no shade of grey. It's only bad.

Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#63

Post by sametmax »

abalashov wrote: post #46
bdcravens wrote: post #44

Reading this the engineer in me was impressed at their thoroughness. I believe it's easy to fall into a trap of thinking of the North Korean government as grossly incompetent, and this isn't necessarily true. If these assumptions extend to Western leaders, it could one day have a disastrous result.

I do wonder where they source the talent and expertise with these platforms necessary to pull something like this off. I understand that's kind of a naive question—any functional state has sufficient resources to solve such problems for itself—but one does wonder. I can only assume there was extensive Chinese help. They definitely have the critical mass of engineering ecosystem for that sort of endeavour.

No. They killed they intellectual elite and added a system in place to make sure they will never grow a new one.

The reality is way worst: some company from our countries accepted a contract with NK and built that for them.

I know that my country, France, is actually pretty famous for their surveillance technology. We have companies such as Amesys that have been caught blatantly selling huge systems for spying on entire countries. Nobody bats an eye because they make banks.

So the UK, Israel, the US or France probably made the tablet. Knowingly.

Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#64

Post by Theodores »

linkmotif wrote: post #9

The one good, albeit tragic, thing about the existence of North Korea is that it serves as a constant reminder of what society can become if we're not vigilant about educating each generation about the dangers of certain ideologies and modes of social organization.

There is more to it than that though, what do the North Koreans actually want? They want a federal Korea with two systems, two leaders, united as one country and with a seat at the U.N. for that one country. A united Korea would be a true world power within a generation, with GDP and population that would outshine all but one of the security council permanent members. None of the North's weapons point at the South, I think the North just want the USA out of the peninsula and for there to be an orderly reunification process without external interference.

The South also expect unification to happen one day, it not being a hostile takeover.

A united Korea with nuclear weapons would be deserved of veto rights at the U.N. and I don't believe the U.S. wants someone else at the top table. So a war is very much being fought, Korea can't be allowed to be united!!!

It is easy to condemn the crazy Kim guy and slag off North Korea but I think that we are the ones propagandised against as much as them. In all my decades of watching and reading the news I have not once been told what the goals of the respective sides are regarding unification. None of these newsreaders have told me the implications of a united Korea either. I wonder if the U.S. is at war to keep Korea divided, as opposed to keeping their South Korean buddies safe from those crazies up North.

I also think that North Korea is okay to censor out capitalism in its many advertised forms from the web since they are very much under siege/at war with the U.S.A. Would you want your people to be using electronic devices that the CIA could 'Arab Spring' a faux revolution from? Would you want your population drowning in fake news? Is it really that bad to just ban the mainstream media?!? To Ad-Block everything, for everyone? Is access to Facebook or being able to tweet now a human right?

If the international community wanted to resolve North Korea it could be simple - unification - let Korea become a united country with the U.S. taking their tanks out, sorting out their issues by themselves with those pesky nukes swapped for a top seat at the U.N.

Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#65

Post by ioulian »

fluxem wrote: post #47
leggomylibro wrote: post #35

This is a terrifying manifestation of what technology makes trivially possible. This device: * Logs every app and web page that you open. * Keeps forensics on shared files based on hashes, to track networks of like-minded dissidents or individuals sharing similar files. * Refuses to open any files which are not signed by either the government, or the device which created the file. (e.g. photos can be viewed only on t…

So, basically Android? Except, you don't get shot in the back. With Android, it automatically syncs Contacts and photos to the "Cloud", unless you disable it. But, you cannot do it 100%, because it's turn on by default when you first sign in. Also, it's not a secret that Google logs your locations history.

I don't fully understand that this comment is downvoted. He has a point there. We are all being tracked, just see your history [1] on the google website.

It tracks the websites you've visited, the video's you've watched, music I've played, things I've searched, App's I've used (Camera for example), directions I've searched (google maps), ads I've seen, cards in my feed (google now), my location history (actually very cool and very scary)... There are probably a LOT more metadata they have on me that I don't know

I mean, they have a LOT of my data, they know probably more about me that I know about myself.

Of course we aren't blocked for using any apps or viewing files, but they know that we are using and viewing the apps/files. I think it's in their best interests not to block anything, as this way they get a lot of information they otherwise would not get.

You can compare the "my activity" with "Trace Viewer". It's just a matter of perspective. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve the NK way of blocking everything, but the tracking of the data happens in the West already too and we just "accept" it.

[1] https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity

Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#66

Post by kwhitefoot »

jl6 wrote: post #58
leggomylibro wrote: post #35

This is a terrifying manifestation of what technology makes trivially possible. This device: * Logs every app and web page that you open. * Keeps forensics on shared files based on hashes, to track networks of like-minded dissidents or individuals sharing similar files. * Refuses to open any files which are not signed by either the government, or the device which created the file. (e.g. photos can be viewed only on t…

And am I reading this article correctly when it say the Trace Viewer app is visible to the user, so they can see all this logging? That's the most terrifying bit.

If suppressing certain behaviour is the goal then the victim has to be informed somehow whether it is a beating after the behaviour is discovered or a notice beforehand.

Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#67

Post by cryptarch »

cyphar wrote: post #60
fluxem wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, basically Android? Except, you don't get shot in the back. With Android, it automatically syncs Contacts and photos to the "Cloud", unless you disable it. But, you cannot do it 100%, because it's turn on by default when you first sign in. Also, it's not a secret that Google logs your locations history.

As an aside, not all Android ROMs operate in that way. I'm currently using OmniROM with microG, and none of my information is linked to a Google account (specifically on this phone). All of my contacts and calendar are synced with my NextCloud server using DAVDroid, and I use AOSP or other FDroid-approved apps to access my email, contacts and calendar. Now, all of that being said that's not to say that the current st…

You have a choice here if you're tech savy and a ROM is available for your specific baseband. I've so far been unlucky with my S6 because I have a rather obscure baseband.

I'm not saying it's anywhere near as bad as living in NK, but the "open" option is not at all known or available to what I'd estimate at 95+% of the population, and many fewer will actually use it.

Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#69

Post by user982 »

friedman23 wrote: post #48
IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US dropped more bombs on North Korea than we dropped on all of Europe and Japan during WWII. Proxy wars between superpowers never work out well for the actual people affected, and we should not be so forgetful of that.

It worked out well for the South Koreans

The South Koreans that were intentionally massacred by the US?[1]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_massacre

Re: A Closer Look at North Korea’s Ullim Tablet

#70

Post by stewbrew »

fluxem wrote: post #47
leggomylibro wrote: post #35

This is a terrifying manifestation of what technology makes trivially possible. This device: * Logs every app and web page that you open. * Keeps forensics on shared files based on hashes, to track networks of like-minded dissidents or individuals sharing similar files. * Refuses to open any files which are not signed by either the government, or the device which created the file. (e.g. photos can be viewed only on t…

So, basically Android? Except, you don't get shot in the back. With Android, it automatically syncs Contacts and photos to the "Cloud", unless you disable it. But, you cannot do it 100%, because it's turn on by default when you first sign in. Also, it's not a secret that Google logs your locations history.

Not sure why you single out Android since most "modern" commercial OS send data home in order to develop predictions about it's user. In the western world, it's called assistance. Android/Google at least give you a hint and some control over what kind of information is being collected.
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