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What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

larrysukernik.com

61–70 of 134 posts

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Wisebanyan as well and would recommend it

According to a link about performance from a comment above, Wise Banyan has done pretty well over the last three years. https://senzu.io/investing/robo-advisors

But... you don't want to make long-term (or even short-term) investment decisions based on recent past performance.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you moved your money to Vanguard and invested in the same funds Betterment currently invests in for you, and you rebalanced as often as necessary, you would get a slightly higher ROI at Vanguard because Vanguard has lower fees. However, all of the things Betterment does for you now would be your responsibility, including asset selection, rebalancing, thinking about how to manage taxes, etc. The bottom line is that…

> rebalancing Vanguard Target Date funds rebalance automatically. > including asset selection Vanguard's asset selection is "literally buy everything on the market". Its a dumb strategy, but it seems to work. In particular, Vanguard's total market index will perform by definition the average (minus Vanguard's very low fees). > how to manage taxes Its no harder than Betterment. You get a 1099-DIV next year, and then f…

How much money do you have in Vanguard? I guarantee you will save from TLH if you have assets north of $1M. My annual tax burden has been reduced by 6 figures each year due to taking losses intelligently.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#63
post #3

Wealthfront has raised ~$100M and Betterment has raised ~$200M. If they are only burning $4M/year to grow as fast as they are, they are doing fantastically well. I suspect though that the author's burn rates are off by an order of magnitude.

Yeah, he's taking salary, and a conservative salary at that, as cost to the business. The cost to the business is generally much higher, 1.5x to 2x depending on benefits. He should probably double the number he's using.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#64

Why can't I buy VTI and dividend reinvest? I compared that to Betterment since 2004 and it wins handily. What am I missing? Tax loss harvesting sounds fancy but what's the actual bottom line benefit after fees?

I don't use a robo-advisor, but TLH saves me 6 figures in taxes every year. Sadly I'm not comfortable disclosing the size of my portfolio. It's big enough to have an account with most bankers, but not big enough to require dedicated staff. :)

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#65

I tried out these services, and it just freaks me out too much having $50,000 sitting in an iPhone app. I get that they are insured and legit, but it's just too much money for me to hand over to a startup.

Every single one of my brokerage accounts and banking accounts has an iPhone app. You probably know this, but the money doesn't actually "[sit] in the app", whatever that would mean. It is invested in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc -- the app simply gives you a view into where it all is and the current value. :)

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#66
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rebalancing Vanguard Target Date funds rebalance automatically. > including asset selection Vanguard's asset selection is "literally buy everything on the market". Its a dumb strategy, but it seems to work. In particular, Vanguard's total market index will perform by definition the average (minus Vanguard's very low fees). > how to manage taxes Its no harder than Betterment. You get a 1099-DIV next year, and then f…

How much money do you have in Vanguard? I guarantee you will save from TLH if you have assets north of $1M. My annual tax burden has been reduced by 6 figures each year due to taking losses intelligently.

How? There's a $3000 cap on THL against regular income and capital gains is only taxed at 15%. $1M in realized capital gains is a pretty extraordinary circumstance.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#67

I haven't switched to a roboadvisor product for a few reasons, but one of them is that saving for retirement is a decision you make on a 30+ year timeline. Most startups hardly last 3 years, much less 30. Why would I trust my money to an industry where the typical case is a flameout in only a few years?

This is the same concern I had, though it's important to point out that if you had money in Betterment/Wealthfront and they went under, it would just be an inconvenience as you'd retain your investments.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#68

While we're on the topic of robo-advisors, I'd love to see a robo-advisor that lets clients customize a portfolio allocation and just advises them on when and what to trade to keep their portfolio balanced on a regular schedule, for a fixed fee. That is, instead of these so-called robo-advisors that are actually robo- managers , in the sense that they manage your portfolio and trade on your behalf, and are compensate…

Shameless plug, but I'm actually working on a product that does exactly that. It started as a personal tool that integrated with my brokerage account to take the hassle out of rebalancing and knowing which trades to make with my monthly contributions. It currently only works with Questrade, but I'm looking at adding support for more brokerages.

https://rebalancr.com/

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#69
This article didn't mention it specifically, but Betterment already put in a rate hike. You used to be able to get 10 basis points if you had over 100k and they just increased that to 25 in a really underhanded way. I had been using Betterment for about 2 years when they did this.

I had been happy with Betterment but it's clear that they want to get as many people in under the low rates and slowly increase it on you, knowing that you can't easily move it around to another provider (especially if you're dependent on their tax loss harvesting etc).

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#70
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why don't Silicon Valley firms partner with existing smaller banks looking to do more with their balance sheets? seems like if their ideas are truly disruptive it would be a win-win for both parties.

Banks are heavily regulated and the government forbids such investments. > The FDIC permits insured state banks and their subsidiaries to undertake only safe and sound activities and to make investments that do not present a significant risk to the deposit insurance funds https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/bankdecisions/InvestAc...

There's still room for innovation and partnerships with startups, though, even if they can't do something wildly disruptive*. For example, I originally found out about CreditKarma because my bank had partnered with them in order to incorporate a credit monitoring widget into their online banking portal.
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