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High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

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Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#61

Post by pzh »

Clubber wrote: post #54
solaris_7 wrote: post #8

The obsession for open plan offices continues to amaze me. Companies that invest huge amounts in staffing and other strategic programmes don't seem to spend much time challenging the default suggestion that 'openness = collaboration'. This article mentions high performance employees - but most knowledge workers (designers, programmers etc.) that I know all struggle with open plan office environments irrespective of t…

I can see the conversation now. "If we build this as an open office, it's cheaper AND better? That's a slam dunk!" 6 years later ... "Turns out it's only cheaper, not better. Hey, cheaper is better right?"

Penny-wise and pound-foolish. If cheaper means throwing the time of your most expensive resource (engineers) down the drain to save some money on rent and Ikea furniture, then sure.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#62

Post by arca_vorago »

taurath wrote: post #41
organsnyder wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The collaborative nature of my open office environment helps me to generate tons of great ideas that I'll never have the focus to implement.

Why don't you just stay late or come in early, don't you care about the company?!!

You sound like my old boss. I'm a combat vet, and he said to me, before memorial day, "What's a holiday? I don't take holidays. I'm here all the time.."

Pissed me off. Dude is the CEO and partial owner, so it's completely different. If they want to pretend to be Elon Musk and want me to as well, they better at least pay like it to justify the lack of work/life balance. I am a human being whose existence is entirely indepedent of whatever job I currently have. Crazy thought, I know.

I am only a bit salty because having consulted across a wide array of industries and been the miracle worker one man show in some of them, I have seen it everywhere.

Oh, and back on subject, of course at this place I was shoved into an open office with the devs...

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#63

Post by rdiddly »

Clubber wrote: post #56
nsxwolf wrote: post #42

I made the mistake of thinking "open plan" meant low-walled cubes. Because I've been working longer than this fad existed. I think we had even used the term back then. I didn't get why people were suddenly whining about them. Then I saw a real "open plan" office. Holy shit. Why aren't workers violently revolting?

Being able to yell across the room while sitting down is more efficient than having to stand up first. Efficient collaberating. This is a good metric. It's also the only metric we track. Science! /s What you are referring to is a "cube farm." Businesses have somehow discovered how to make working conditions worse.

Ironically, part of the reason for the ascendancy of the open plan, was the popular negative reaction against cubicles. Cubicles were so Dilbert, so 80s/90s IBM/Microsoft/Intel, so "Office Space." OK, maybe they didn't capture the imagination of every special unique snowflake who would've rather been extreme kite-para-heli-wind-surf-skiing. But at least it was a wall. At least it was a space.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#64

Post by nsxwolf »

st3v3r wrote: post #51
nsxwolf wrote: post #42

I made the mistake of thinking "open plan" meant low-walled cubes. Because I've been working longer than this fad existed. I think we had even used the term back then. I didn't get why people were suddenly whining about them. Then I saw a real "open plan" office. Holy shit. Why aren't workers violently revolting?

Because workers have seen their rights and their station in life vastly eroded over the past 30-40 years.

But seriously, if I ran a company and set up the office that way, and a bunch of people came up to me and said "Hey man, this office layout is bullshit", I'd say OK and get on the phone and order some cubes. It really shouldn't be a big deal.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#65

Post by [deleted] »

st3v3r wrote: post #51
nsxwolf wrote: post #42

I made the mistake of thinking "open plan" meant low-walled cubes. Because I've been working longer than this fad existed. I think we had even used the term back then. I didn't get why people were suddenly whining about them. Then I saw a real "open plan" office. Holy shit. Why aren't workers violently revolting?

Because workers have seen their rights and their station in life vastly eroded over the past 30-40 years.

[deleted]

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#66

Post by rdiddly »

mason240 wrote: post #19
solaris_7 wrote: post #8

The obsession for open plan offices continues to amaze me. Companies that invest huge amounts in staffing and other strategic programmes don't seem to spend much time challenging the default suggestion that 'openness = collaboration'. This article mentions high performance employees - but most knowledge workers (designers, programmers etc.) that I know all struggle with open plan office environments irrespective of t…

Our company is currently relocating to new office, and they want an open office plan in the space. We will pack in tight, and our cube walls will all be 3.5 feet high. We have adjustable standing desks that will coming with us, so when standing we will towering over every one and I already know it's going to be awkward for me. The best part is our 5 person IT team will be right next to 25 people who work phones for c…

I agree this sounds awful, but if the IT people were properly empowered to solve the problems they overheard being dealt with in customer service (and it wasn't forced on them), you might actually manage to get a nice feedback loop going.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#67

Post by Clubber »

rdiddly wrote: post #63
Clubber wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to yell across the room while sitting down is more efficient than having to stand up first. Efficient collaberating. This is a good metric. It's also the only metric we track. Science! /s What you are referring to is a "cube farm." Businesses have somehow discovered how to make working conditions worse.

Ironically, part of the reason for the ascendancy of the open plan, was the popular negative reaction against cubicles. Cubicles were so Dilbert, so 80s/90s IBM/Microsoft/Intel, so "Office Space." OK, maybe they didn't capture the imagination of every special unique snowflake who would've rather been extreme kite-para-heli-wind-surf-skiing. But at least it was a wall. At least it was a space.

The best method (for maximum sustained productivity) I've experienced is 2 developers to an office. For me, it's actually best if the developers aren't on the same team so they won't often interrupt each other. Either way is better than a cube farm and certainly open office. It's significantly cheaper than an office per developer, but nearly as good.

It's great to collaborate and all, but that should be done at a scheduled time in a scheduled place.

The negatives of open space is why libraries have a STFU rule.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#68

Post by nsxwolf »

Clubber wrote: post #67
rdiddly wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, part of the reason for the ascendancy of the open plan, was the popular negative reaction against cubicles. Cubicles were so Dilbert, so 80s/90s IBM/Microsoft/Intel, so "Office Space." OK, maybe they didn't capture the imagination of every special unique snowflake who would've rather been extreme kite-para-heli-wind-surf-skiing. But at least it was a wall. At least it was a space.

The best method (for maximum sustained productivity) I've experienced is 2 developers to an office. For me, it's actually best if the developers aren't on the same team so they won't often interrupt each other. Either way is better than a cube farm and certainly open office. It's significantly cheaper than an office per developer, but nearly as good. It's great to collaborate and all, but that should be done at a sch…

I've had that arrangement before too, and it wasn't bad.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#69

Post by technics256 »

arca_vorago wrote: post #62
taurath wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you just stay late or come in early, don't you care about the company?!!

You sound like my old boss. I'm a combat vet, and he said to me, before memorial day, "What's a holiday? I don't take holidays. I'm here all the time.." Pissed me off. Dude is the CEO and partial owner, so it's completely different. If they want to pretend to be Elon Musk and want me to as well, they better at least pay like it to justify the lack of work/life balance. I am a human being whose existence is entirely i…

As an American who moved to Germany, that mindset was completely removed here. Not only do people tell you to take your vacation time if you don't, they get worried if you are working too much or too hard.

It's a great relief to be here and see a different mindset outside that of the "all work no holiday" cultures you can find in the states.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#70

Post by cname »

solaris_7 wrote: post #8

The obsession for open plan offices continues to amaze me. Companies that invest huge amounts in staffing and other strategic programmes don't seem to spend much time challenging the default suggestion that 'openness = collaboration'. This article mentions high performance employees - but most knowledge workers (designers, programmers etc.) that I know all struggle with open plan office environments irrespective of t…

Hmm... so executives/managers aren't as affected by open office plans and also tend to lack empathy... so we get open office plans or maybe, if we're lucky, cube walls.

I know I'm generalizing and not all managers lack empathy, but this seems like a reasonable explanation for the pervasiveness of arrangements that waste resources and hinder higher levels of productivity--maybe they just don't get it.

I could never understand the cost argument since lower productivity means either more employees to do the same thing and/or a shittier product, which can translate into lost sales, more infrastructure, etc. (This might not apply to early stage startups and the like; I'm thinking of established organizations here.)

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