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H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

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Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#61

Post by djsumdog »

koolba wrote: post #30

> But the legislation would also permanently bar the IRS from offering its own free alternative. Why should we as citizens of this great country be forced to give up the right to form a public option? Not quite 1:1 but the analogies to health care do come to mind.

Australia has their own tax software. It's not pretty, but it's pretty straight forward. In NZ you don't even have to file. You login to the IRD site and it shows you your earnings, similar to this proposal.

Jobs will disappear and some industry will go away if we had a unified federal run tax system. Most likely though, these two companies will turn into contractors for the government to make an maintain one standardized system. They'll earn less money, but the entire system overall would be better.

This is a good place where we can see capitalism break down; where the public good is done a disservice by those who would seek to retain their earnings from an inefficient system.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#62

Post by mtgx »

John23832 wrote: post #4

It's never wrong for businesses to lobby for their interests. It's wrong when our elected officials bend to those business interest when it goes against the public interest.

So two issues with that statement.

1) Is it wrong to lobby politicians in general?

This can be debatable, but I would say a strong democracy should decide that individuals, organizations, and corporations can only make their cases in public hearings and on the record. That way we see where everyone stands and what exactly the arguments are for or against something. So it may not be illegal for an entity to "talk" to a politician about an issue, but I would argue that it would be best if everything they say about a certain policy or bill should be on the record, not in the back stage. There are thousands of "little things" like these that could make the U.S. a better democracy.

2) How do you define "lobbying"?

Is it just talking to a politician or is it talking plus something like:

"Hey, we've just donated $50,000 to your campaign as well. No worries, we just did it because we liked you, right after our conversations on how it would be best for you to vote ;). Oh, and we're only doing the winking because it would be illegal for us to tell you that we're giving you this much money to vote how we want on that bill."

Yeah, I would say that should definitely be illegal - in the sense that no company or organization should be able to donate as much as $50,000 (or more) to a politician. I'm strictly in favor of sub-$500 donations a year to a politician.

The "money vote" that's represented by campaign donations is greatly skewing how a politician should vote, because he or she would then have to listen to those that donated the most by far, compared to the people that donated only $30. So the "money vote" should be as "equalized" and "universal" as the real vote is (as much as possible at least, but I think it should be under $1,000, because beyond $1,000 it still incetivizes politicians to hold fundraisers with rich people).

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#63

Post by M_Grey »

John23832 wrote: post #41
M_Grey wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...And Enron, and Goldman, and all of the companies that tanked us in 2008. Right? Where is this right spelled out exactly, except in the fiction that corporations are people without the responsibilities?

(Even though I disagree with it) Many courts interpretations of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC Lobbying is speech. You can't just censor people you disagree with. That's not the basis of our democratic society. The price of being able to speak what you think is good, is having to hear what you think is bad.

That would be the aforementioned fiction I was expecting you'd trot out. You really are just abandoning anything like a moral or intellectual dimension of responsibility in favor of pure legalism, up to and including IG Farben in Nazi Germany?!

That's not really a position, it's a tragedy.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#64

Post by Apocryphon »

equalunique wrote: post #54
koolba wrote: post #30

> But the legislation would also permanently bar the IRS from offering its own free alternative. Why should we as citizens of this great country be forced to give up the right to form a public option? Not quite 1:1 but the analogies to health care do come to mind.

What's going to happen to all of the nice employees maintaining HR Block and Intuit's tax filling products? Should they go become used car salespeople and McDonald's fry cooks?

Isn't this disruption? Aren't we supposed to like it?

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#65

Post by M_Grey »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #55
M_Grey wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...And Enron, and Goldman, and all of the companies that tanked us in 2008. Right? Where is this right spelled out exactly, except in the fiction that corporations are people without the responsibilities?

Whether you believe in the Citizen's United decision or not, companies are still groups of people. People, alone or in groups, have the right to speak, and to petition the government.

Lets not pretend that a lobbying organization is somehow representing anything other than the company and its shareholders.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#66

Post by RamshackleJ »

equalunique wrote: post #54
koolba wrote: post #30

> But the legislation would also permanently bar the IRS from offering its own free alternative. Why should we as citizens of this great country be forced to give up the right to form a public option? Not quite 1:1 but the analogies to health care do come to mind.

What's going to happen to all of the nice employees maintaining HR Block and Intuit's tax filling products? Should they go become used car salespeople and McDonald's fry cooks?

As the Market wills! Do not fear for the Market always has a greater plan in mind.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#67

Post by Azkar »

imgabe wrote: post #58

Filing is always free. Online filing costs money, but you can always mail in a paper form. If everyone did that, the IRS would pretty quickly want to make sure people can file online easily and cheaply. Stop using HR Block and Turbo Tax. For most people, taxes are not very complicated. The IRS publishes detailed instructions that literally explain what every box means and what should go in it for every form. Just rea…

You underestimate how lazy and unmotivated most people are.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#68

Post by markkanof »

bkohlmann wrote: post #49

While I am against Intuits efforts, what astounds me most is how LITTLE money is spent lobbying. A few million over a year is peanuts compared to the broader market opportunity. And the implication that Congresspeople are bought off by sums as low as "$32,000" since 2008 seems unlikely. Intuit and H&R may simply contribute to those they know already support their agenda.

You do occasionally hear the random news item about people who are willing to kill other people for what seems like paltry sums of money or people who spend years and years skimming money from the company they work for, but the total amount stolen is very small. It wouldn't surprise me if there are members of congress that would be willing to push some agenda for a 32,000 donation.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#69

Post by koolba »

equalunique wrote: post #54
koolba wrote: post #30

> But the legislation would also permanently bar the IRS from offering its own free alternative. Why should we as citizens of this great country be forced to give up the right to form a public option? Not quite 1:1 but the analogies to health care do come to mind.

What's going to happen to all of the nice employees maintaining HR Block and Intuit's tax filling products? Should they go become used car salespeople and McDonald's fry cooks?

If they can compete with a public option then I'm sure they'll have jobs. If not who's to stop a private competitor from eating their lunch?

FYI I'm not saying ban private tax preparation (though I do think it's unnecessary for 90+% of people as they're just filing a 1040EZ). Just that we shouldn't be restricted from allowing the Feds to provide a default option.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#70

Post by sp332 »

blackguardx wrote: post #53
senior_james wrote: post #40

The government would actually love this. Most people are ignorant of tax laws and would just sign a piece of paper to get all of their taxes done. It would be an instant pay raise because most people would never even know if they could write something off. It would also allow them to easily remove the ability to write anything off, without too many people complaining. What many people don't like to talk about is that…

Have you ever actually done your taxes by hand? The 1040EZ is supposed to take 7 hours. Back when I did paper taxes and couldn't do the 1040EZ, the 1040 long form took me about 20 hours to do, slightly beating the IRS estimate of 22 hours. The government has all the information about me. Why do I have to gather it all up and tell them again? A friend in Finland tells me it takes him 10 minutes to approve the tax docu…

The 1040EZ is a single page and has only 2 pages of instructions. How does it take 7 hours? http://datechguyblog.com/2011/04/15/7-hours-for-form-1040ez-... (Link from 2011 but I don't remember it being much different lately.)

Edit: the IRS now says it takes 3 hours to fill out and submit the form, and 2 hours to collect the relevant paperwork, for 5 total. https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040gi/ar03.html

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