Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

They Used To Last 50 Years

recraigslist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 877 posts

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#61

Post by snotrockets »

someone13 wrote: post #25
wodenokoto wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a very interesting point. How good is a similarly priced 2017 fridge compared to a 1950's when price is measured in real dollars.

I wasn't able to find anything about a fridge, but some searching found a Sears catalog from 1959: http://www.aei.org/publication/appliance-shopping-1959-vs-20... From that page, it looks like the price of the washer, adjusted for inflation to 2016, is $1756.12. A comparable washer today, from Sears, appears to be somewhere in the $400 - $600 range, or about 30% as much as it used to cost. Data for today's washers: h…

And that modern washer would use less energy, water, and need less detergent, reducing the cost-per-load.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#62

Post by MakeUsersWant »

I would pay for a credible source of information how long various household appliances last. (I buy by TOC, and I also value my time.)

The problem is credibility. Manufacturers have an incentive to astroturf "independent" reviews. Insurerers have an incentive to rule out every common fault. And I want the data collection audited.

At this point, I'm ripe for appliances-as-a-service unless a big consumer watchdog steps up. Maybe there is room for a built-to-last manufacturer who goes to great lengths to show me they mean it. Maybe commercial appliances marketed to consumers?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#63

Post by makecheck »

I just went through this with a refrigerator and I was amazed that I had to spend hours reading reviews of innumerable brands (most of which are really the same, as mentioned in the article) before coming up with even a handful that seemed reasonable. This should have been a simple task but virtually all of them have several got-completely-screwed-a-few-months-after-purchase comments.

My own repair guy told me that often the insides of different brands are IDENTICAL, changing only the brand name, door chrome and other superficial things to justify some kind of premium. This means you’ll break down just as often spending thousands more. The companies themselves are becoming lousier, it is not that they are taking your extra money to make a good product.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#64

Post by WalterBright »

steffan wrote: post #51
WalterBright wrote: post #42

My furnace is supposed to have a useful life of 15 years. Every once in a while, it breaks and I call the repairman. I watch him work, and there isn't anything complicated about it. It's just figure out which part broke, and replace it. So why does it only last 15 years? You can no longer get replacement parts for it. The machine looks to me like it should last 50 years. The part failures mine had over the last 17 ye…

One of the reasons for the limited life would be the longevity of the actual heat exchanger - they will eventually corrode due to the corrosive nature of the exhaust gases passing through them. Additionally, the manufacturer probably doesn't want to have to stock parts for 16+ year old models. An analog would be software; nothing stops a circa-1994 Windows NT machine from continuing to work, but good luck getting sup…

> corrode

Corrosion is unlikely to cause any problem with the heat exchanger unless it is really severe, as there are no moving parts in it.

> nothing stops a circa-1994 Windows NT machine from continuing to work

My older machines of that era have all failed due (most likely) to failed capacitors. The disk drives fail most likely due to lubrication issues. The semiconductors fail because all semiconductors fail due to the migration of the doping that occurs when they get warm.

None of my 80's machines will power up anymore. I'm not too surprised, they were only built to last a couple years, and it only takes one failure in those enormously complex machines to do the whole thing in.

I try to keep my XP machines running because those were the last to support DOS programs and I still support Digital Mars C++ generating DOS programs.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#65

Post by awinter-py »

'how do you purchase a new product that will last 50 years if it's only been on the market for 3' is a really interesting problem. If someone can solve this even partially it will matter.

The most interesting question that came up during the 'cash for clunkers' program is 'how much energy does it cost to create a car' -- i.e. the relative fuel efficiency model needs to take into account that the new car needs to be manufactured whereas the manufacture of the 'clunker' is a sunk cost.

Planned obsolescence is another interesting question. If a manufacturer advertises reliability and also designs parts that don't last, can I sue them to reclaim the cost of disposing & replacing?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#66

Post by GuB-42 »

There is planned obsolescence, sure, but most of the examples in the article are about keeping the price low. And they go cheap because it is what the market demands. We want $300 appliances, and this is what we get. Of course, managing prices that low requires cutting every corner. We can still get high quality stuff if we buy commercial machines... for 10 times the price, like in the old days. However, for most people, it isn't worth it.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#67

Post by cyberferret »

This Christmas just gone, we stayed with some friends in their holiday cabin that their father had hand built back in the 1960's. It had a refrigerator (cannot remember the brand) that had been there since 1961, and it still worked perfectly.

The only thing was that you could not open it too many times, otherwise the ice build up would mean you had to turn it off and defrost it.

Makes me wonder if 'convenience' leads to a reduction in longevity at all? Nowadays fridges are self defrosting, self cleaning, have built in IoT and a myriad of other features in order to try and make life easier for consumers.

Has this abdication of care and responsibility actually cost us in the long run? Perhaps if people went back to having to spend time to care for their goods, and took on a little extra time to ensure simple preventative measures, simplicity of manufacturing could come back in and things will last longer?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#68

Post by PuffinBlue »

prodmerc wrote: post #46
PuffinBlue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff. Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years. The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part. The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to…

Well, the rate of failure is the lowest compared to other manufacturers. And those repairs are way too expensive I should say. White Knight dryers are surprisingly good, yeah. The LG washers work fine for 3-5 years, their weakest point is the suspension (really hard to replace) and the drum bearings/spider (irreplaceable), especially if you overload them.

The drum was a point all the repair guys brought up for basically all washing machines because all the modern ones are welded or something. Essentially they said they are terrible for repairs compared to the old style (which I presume weren't welded?) but the benefit to the newer setup was less leaks (or words to that effect).

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#69

Post by autokad »

tomlock wrote: post #48

Isn't this largely driven by consumer demand? The prices of appliances has dropped dramatically in the last few decades. Building a long-lasting appliance often requires even marginally more expensive materials - many of which are highlighted in this article. If consumers are primarily price sensitive at the time of purchase, they may choose the $50 cheaper appliance even if it lasts 40 years less. What I mean to sug…

part of the issue, and I'm surprised the author didnt mention it, is that in the last 10 years most devices have switched from mechanical to electronic.

when i bought my speed queen washer and dryer, the person selling it said they only had mechanical, which some consider an advantage. I tend to agree.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#70

Post by MichaelBurge »

tomlock wrote: post #48

Isn't this largely driven by consumer demand? The prices of appliances has dropped dramatically in the last few decades. Building a long-lasting appliance often requires even marginally more expensive materials - many of which are highlighted in this article. If consumers are primarily price sensitive at the time of purchase, they may choose the $50 cheaper appliance even if it lasts 40 years less. What I mean to sug…

Around 40%[1] of the population rents, which means 40% doesn't make the purchasing decision for many appliances. We can sanity-check your argument with this: That reasoning should predict no change in the quality of commercial appliances used in apartment complexes and laundromats, since these customers are used to making spreadsheets with a capital expenditures budget that they pay into for 30 years.

[1] http://www.citylab.com/housing/2016/02/the-rise-of-renting-i...

Post reply on HN