Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee • Hacker News Board

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#61

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

belovedeagle wrote: post #2

Raise your hand if you're surprised that the only unfilled seats are the ones who will be in favor of fewer ads. I wonder how many meetings have been held already to discuss strategy, in their absence. I also wonder whether it will matter, with 7 seats for ad agencies (4+3; I'm not fooled by this "expert" bullshit for one second), and 3 for anti-ad advocates, plus some rando.

The good thing is that everyone, including the ad agencies, has a motivation to not allow shitty ads. The acceptable ads program only affects people who have already demonstrated tech-savvyness (either directly or by having a relative helping with it) and unwillingness to tolerate bad ads by installing an adblocker in the first place.

They know that if the ads get too annoying, people will block them completely, and they've seen how much it sucks when that happens.

Hence, if they're smart, they'll try to be decent about the criteria (and might find a way to get rid of the taboola/outbrain clickbait that makes people disable acceptable ads, but is tolerated by ABP because it pays). If not, that's OK too - acceptable ads will die, and their ads will be blocked completely.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#62

Post by manigandham » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

pyrophane wrote: post #57

manigandham wrote: post #31

We're one of the companies on the committee. Lots of strong emotions here, as usual with anything ad related on HN. The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. Yes, it's not ideal and the online implementation is poorly done most of the time. It's because of perverse incentives and a lack of regulation in the entire industry that force bad formats, fraudsters, malware, and…

> Lots of strong emotions here, as usual with anything ad related on HN. The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. I'd be perfectly happy if ads could no longer support free content on the internet. It would mean that I'd either have to pay for what I want to read, or the author would have to give it away for free. If every bit of ad-supported content had to go into one…

Sure, that's valid - for you. But there are billions of people who would choose ad subsidized content so what's important is a choice of options.

Also you run into more advertising in the real world then online and every company you work for is most likely successful because of advertising.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#63

Post by mlmlmasd » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

openasocket wrote: post #54

mlmlmasd wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if the solution is ads blocked for a fee? The day I have to pay to not have manipulative bullshit spammed at me is the day I say goodbye to the internet. Fuck right off.

Would you prefer a paywall? Seriously asking

No I prefer everything to be free, open source, organic, and made by volunteers. You can stop pretending that there are only two options.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#64

Post by idiot_stick » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:19 PM UTC

pcwalton wrote: post #51

idiot_stick wrote: post #29

> Do you expect content producers to get paid? Expect? No. "Producing content" isn't difficult, nor is anyone entitled to profit from it.

It's ignorant, insulting comments like this that give programmers a bad name among artists. Please stop.

>It's ignorant, insulting comments like this that give programmers a bad name among artists. Please stop.

Do you think you deserve to be paid for this comment? No? Then what are you arguing about.

But while we're name-calling, you have to be pretty daft and technically illiterate to think that "creating content" is difficult, or even an ends to anything. Please stop.

PS: I'm not a programmer.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#65

Post by openasocket » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

accountface wrote: post #48

maxaf wrote: post #43

I'm opposed to all advertising and marketing on ethical grounds. In my book human attention isn't for sale, and all attempts to sell my attention will be dealt with by technical means with extreme prejudice. It's true that content producers need to get paid; it's not true that human attention is an acceptable currency for which this payment must be exchanged. Find some other way. Show some fucking adaptability.

The current concept of advertising has been around for more than 200 years now... I think the "all ads have to go away forever" approach is doomed to fail.

Depending on your definition, advertising has been around for millennia. Hell, there are billboard advertisements in Pompeii.

https://blogs.ubc.ca/etec540sept10/2010/11/29/the-evolution-...

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#66

Post by mlmlmasd » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #58

mlmlmasd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. I've never had free internet... which ISP do you use? > It's because of perverse incentives and a lack of regulation in the entire industry that force bad formats, fraudsters, malware, and the pursuit of data and volume to win over quality and user experience. The whole point of advertising is to trick people into buying shit t…

ISP are providing access/transit, not content. Just because you have a car doesn't mean you can go to any store and carry out merchandise for free. Advertising, and the greater marketing concept, is not that simple. It's about connecting customers looking for wants and needs with the companies that offer them. There is a certain amount of work in creating that desire (hence the wants and not just needs) but it's ulti…

> ISP are providing access/transit, not content.

If you want to go that route, then none of the advertising companies, or companies that make money from advertising are providing the content either. There are several steps before the content comes from some person's mind to your computer, the ISP is one of those steps.

> Care to explain how this is backwards progress and lifts pressure on the industry?

You want me to explain how an initiative to not block a subset of ads alleviates the pressure from blocking all ads? Seems pretty trivial to me.

> This is a company and extension that only makes it harder for the existing ad networks to continue.

Nope. They did make it harder before, when they weren't taking money from advertising companies to not hide ads, and weren't launching initiatives such as the topic of this thread.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#67

Post by manigandham » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:23 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #49

manigandham wrote: post #31

We're one of the companies on the committee. Lots of strong emotions here, as usual with anything ad related on HN. The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. Yes, it's not ideal and the online implementation is poorly done most of the time. It's because of perverse incentives and a lack of regulation in the entire industry that force bad formats, fraudsters, malware, and…

As others here have pointed out, the definition of an acceptable ad here says nothing about tracking[1]. This is what I mostly care about, and I don't see ABP (or now the AAC) wanting to change anything. So I'll stick with uBlock(Origin) thank you. I do have a question thought - as a someone in the ad industry, do you ever think to yourself: "We've built the largest surveillance system the world has ever known... for…

No we don't think that, because that's not how it works.

Advertising is just distributing a message, a small subset of marketing in general. And marketing is connecting consumers to services/products they want and need. Creating brands and desires is a separate art within it but saying it's just a system to sell some toilet paper is incredibly reductive and I'm sure you know it's not that simple.

Surveillance is the act of monitoring, not the system itself. So yes, unfortunately anything that has a large surface area of data access will be at the mercy of greater actors who might (forcibly or otherwise) use that access for surveillance. There's nothing special about online advertising here, rather this is an issue about personal rights, laws and the government in general.

ABP does have a weakness when it comes to privacy clarifications - and as I've said before I'm not a fan of them or their approach - however since the list only allows certain ad networks, it greatly cuts down on the number of trackers since they would still remain blocked. The hope is to get greater rules put in place (by the entire industry) but we have to start somewhere or this never gets off the ground.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#68

Post by idiot_stick » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:25 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #32

idiot_stick wrote: post #29

> Do you expect content producers to get paid? Expect? No. "Producing content" isn't difficult, nor is anyone entitled to profit from it.

How would you solve this? Paywalls for everything?

>How would you solve this? Paywalls for everything?

Sure, why not. I don't care. I have zero problem finding content I want via a variety of methods, free and paid. I have more content than I can consume.

But if you choose to go the ad supported route, know that I'm going to block your ads, so there's no point complaining about it.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#69

Post by mlmlmasd » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:25 PM UTC

TheIronYuppie wrote: post #55

mlmlmasd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. I've never had free internet... which ISP do you use? > It's because of perverse incentives and a lack of regulation in the entire industry that force bad formats, fraudsters, malware, and the pursuit of data and volume to win over quality and user experience. The whole point of advertising is to trick people into buying shit t…

DISCLOSURE: I WORK AT GOOGLE ON NOTHING AD RELATED BUT IT CERTAINLY PAYS MY SALARY. >> The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. > I've never had free internet... which ISP do you use? How many payments from Comcast to New York Times happen per year? Hint, the number rhymes with buck mall. >> It's because of perverse incentives and a lack of regulation in the entire indu…

> How many payments from Comcast to New York Times happen per year? Hint, the number rhymes with buck mall.

I'm not good at rhymes and I have no fucking clue. Riddle my fiddle.

> Or, it's to inform you about the stuff that's out there. It's all perspective.

That's fucking cute.

> There's no one on the other side right now - ABP is at least bringing the people to the table.

What side? ABP isn't bringing anyone anywhere, they take kickbacks from companies like google in order to not block ads.

> If you don't like it, then turn on and pay for Google Contributor (see earlier disclosure about my employer) and then no ads AND the site you visits actually get paid.

Really? A google employee telling me to pay for google contributor? Bud, 'If you don't like it', you can tickle my ballsack. Rofl.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#70

Post by manigandham » Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 9:26 PM UTC

pharrington wrote: post #52

manigandham wrote: post #31

We're one of the companies on the committee. Lots of strong emotions here, as usual with anything ad related on HN. The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. Yes, it's not ideal and the online implementation is poorly done most of the time. It's because of perverse incentives and a lack of regulation in the entire industry that force bad formats, fraudsters, malware, and…

Explain where the progress is in creating a committee that's packed with advertisers who decide which ads the ad-blocker software does or doesn't block.

The entire advertising mechanism is a balance between advertisers, the supply chain (vendors, agencies, publishers, etc) and the consumer.

ABP is on behalf of the consumer, but you can't change an industry from one side. Progress comes from discussion and commitments to do something, so you need all sides at the table.

Our ad network was designed from day 1 to be simple, static, fast, private and safe. It's one of the reasons we're in the committee, and hopefully this gives us leverage to show other companies as well as advertisers that there's a better way that still delivers results without the terrible effects of legacy options.