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Japan's Universities Are Failing

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Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#61

Post by mkaziz »

thevardanian wrote: post #30
_rjlt wrote: post #23

I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. It might lead to social upheaval, but it sounds like that kind of change is sorely needed. A well executed immigration policy could inject fresh blood into that country.

Until at what point? Eventually the entire world is going to have to face a demographic change in the form of population reduction considering the whole 9 billion+ thing. You can't just continue to import more people from abroad and believe that it's a long term solution. There's also a case to be made for culture, and preservation of unique ethnicity.

Addressing your first point: the problem is that they're stagnating /now/. They don't have the means or will or resources to deal with their problems. There's not enough labour to support the elderly population.

I'm sure they can decrease inflow at an appropriate time, but for now, they need fresh blood and fresh ideas.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#62

Post by muh_gradle »

pottersbasilisk wrote: post #59
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. That's a pretty small-minded and dogmatic statement; it basically amounts to "copy US policy, it's the only way." At some point, someone in the world is going to actually have to solve the problem of stagnant or declining populations, without copping out and just importing new populations from elsewhere.

You are absolutely right. Korea and Japan are investing heavily into robots.

Korea has a lot of immigrants.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#63

Post by pizzetta »

tsul wrote: post #49
csa wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese universities are relatively easy to graduate from (frankly, this is true for many Ivy-league departments as well), but that doesn't mean people don't try. First, many folks, especially at the better schools, are genuinely interested in the topics they are studying. As such, they will go above and beyond in some or all of their classes. Second, in many programs, the professors have contacts in the field that…

Interesting—thanks for your in-depth perspective. I didn’t mean to imply that nobody tries in Japanese university, of course, especially since I have no first-hand experience. I’d just heard that the culture is, in general, less rigorous than in Western universities. The point about networking through professors is really interesting to me. Alongside other replies about the intensity of the job hunt for Japanese stud…

Someone told me that the hard part about universities in Japan is getting in. Once you're in, you have to try to fail. Conversely, High School, while rote, is hard. In that sense, it's a bit opposite of other places like the Us where High School is not hard but typically University is hard.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#64

Post by grillvogel »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #52
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. That's a pretty small-minded and dogmatic statement; it basically amounts to "copy US policy, it's the only way." At some point, someone in the world is going to actually have to solve the problem of stagnant or declining populations, without copping out and just importing new populations from elsewhere.

Well, that "US way" has worked better than every other developed country in that respect, why not adopt it?

japanese culture predates "the US way" by thousands of years.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#65

Post by Brockenstein »

sbierwagen wrote: post #53
stale2002 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of Japan is caused specifically because of its make work culture. Jobs are focused on shoe face, NOT on producing value. What matters is not how good you are it is how many years you have put into the company working 80 hour weeks. It is unsurprising to me that a culture not focused on producing value wouldn't produce much value.

Shoe face?

You know, shoe face, the classic make work gambit where you employ people to makes shoes with their faces because it's inefficient you have to employ a lot of people to have any sort of production. It's pretty common in the East.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#66

Post by ProfessorLayton »

gozur88 wrote: post #33
_rjlt wrote: post #23

I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. It might lead to social upheaval, but it sounds like that kind of change is sorely needed. A well executed immigration policy could inject fresh blood into that country.

A way out of what?

The collapse of the Japanese population, and with it, its economy, education system, and way of life?

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#67

Post by grillvogel »

flamedoge wrote: post #36
csa wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe your hypothesis is correct, but I think the likelihood of significant levels of immigration is very low. The reason is that while Japan tends to treat "westerners" quite favorably, it does not treat folks from developing countries nearly as well. Japan is inviting many immigrants from developing counties -- ethnic Japanese from Brazil, undergrad and grad students from a variety of countries, laborers from a…

yes, and maybe immigration could actually be a good thing by creating problems to solve... a circular logic, but it may help unravel centuries of mono-culture and its idiosyncrasies such as mistrust and racism.

so all japan needs to do is completely destroy their own culture, its so simple now

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#68

Post by doall »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #52
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. That's a pretty small-minded and dogmatic statement; it basically amounts to "copy US policy, it's the only way." At some point, someone in the world is going to actually have to solve the problem of stagnant or declining populations, without copping out and just importing new populations from elsewhere.

Well, that "US way" has worked better than every other developed country in that respect, why not adopt it?

Because there are huge side effects by copying the "US way". If you want a much smaller scale and a weaker version of the US then adopt it. That is definitely not what the Japanese people want.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#69

Post by hx87 »

_rjlt wrote: post #23

I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. It might lead to social upheaval, but it sounds like that kind of change is sorely needed. A well executed immigration policy could inject fresh blood into that country.

Finishing the gender role revolution (i.e. men also take care of home and the kids, not getting drunk with coworkers every night) and ensuring that income security for the younger generations is at least as good as for the older generations would go a long way even without immigration.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#70

Post by csa »

tsul wrote: post #49
csa wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese universities are relatively easy to graduate from (frankly, this is true for many Ivy-league departments as well), but that doesn't mean people don't try. First, many folks, especially at the better schools, are genuinely interested in the topics they are studying. As such, they will go above and beyond in some or all of their classes. Second, in many programs, the professors have contacts in the field that…

Interesting—thanks for your in-depth perspective. I didn’t mean to imply that nobody tries in Japanese university, of course, especially since I have no first-hand experience. I’d just heard that the culture is, in general, less rigorous than in Western universities. The point about networking through professors is really interesting to me. Alongside other replies about the intensity of the job hunt for Japanese stud…

- Glad I can help. Feel free to ask more questions -- I love this topic.

- The rigor in most Japanese universities is in the entrance exam. It's quite tough and is a decent filter for intelligence and study skills. STEM degrees in Japan can sometimes be rigorous as well.

- I would humbly argue that most US degrees (not sure about Europe) are not terribly rigorous outside of STEM fields and STEM-wannabe fields like economics. I have two degrees from two Ivy schools and many professors as friends, so I think I have a decent feel for who has to study hard to graduate and who doesn't.

- The schools are definitely a hiring pipeline, with the main factor being gaining admission. There are two problems with this. First, the average quality of entering students has fallen rapidly in the past 25 or so years. As such, a degree from any school not called Tokyo University has decreased in value and prestige by quite a bit. While a big Japan megacorp may have been willing to hire 20 graduates from a second-tier national university in 1985 (because they were high value-add individuals), they may only see 5 graduates in 2017 from the same school with the same level of value add. Second, there are just fewer salaryman jobs available today. As such, schools that used to be a strong part of the hiring pipeline are now only mariginal parts of the pipeline. Many parents and students are very frustrated by this. Japanese megacorps have started leaning much more on low-prestige temporary workers to replace the missing warm bodies that they are not hiring (compared to the past). These temp jobs are terrible for Japanese society since they are relatively low wage jobs with low stability and low prestige -- it's almost like not having a job other than the fact that you have to be at work. As I have said in another reply, I hope the youth of Japan get sick of this and rebel -- the older generation is massively screwing the younger generation in a gaping societal generational divide.

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