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Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

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Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#61

Post by AdeptusAquinas »

rodionos wrote: post #57
AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual rate for Sweden and the UK is 0.9, each. So even the 'non-black' rate in the US is higher than both, put together. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intenti...

I recommend double checking reference tables in Wikipedia. It is conveniently displayed first in search results, however for Sweden: https://www.bra.se/download/18.358de3051533ffea5ea7f2cf/1459... > 305 Completed murder, manslaughter and assault resulting in death. > 9,851,017 Total population = 3.1 per 100000 people

The differences are due to different definitions of intentional homicide between countries, which is why I would argue a UN study with its own definition is better for comparison than a Swedish and US source.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#62

Post by rayiner »

Pxtl wrote: post #17
willvarfar wrote: post #6

I don't get why the Right is so keen to vilify Sweden. I've lived abroad and travelled and feel I have a fair handle on all the countries I've visited and I'm living abroad now.. In Sweden! Nordic countries are by far the best functioning countries I've ever visited and should serve as positive examples.

Because Scandinavia has countries that are aggressively left-wing and really successful at it. These are the places that prove that liberal ideals work. And they've accepted a tremendous number of refugees. So ideologue right wingers are desperate to see them fail, as proof that Muslims are intrinsically hateful and that Scandinavians are chumps for falling for leftist ideals.

It's been a long time since U.S. media has really attacked the Scandinavian countries because of their leftism or their welfare state. If anything, the attacks on Sweden implicitly assume the success of their model: the basic narrative is that Sweden has a good thing going but is throwing it away by accepting tons of refugees.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#63

Post by rodionos »

rodionos wrote: post #31

Let's look at raw statistics for a second. The data comes from the Swedish crime agency bra.se: https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statist... 1) Total numbers of offenses. Rape statistics chart is displayed below: https://apps.axibase.com/chartlab/013dc374/1/#fullscreen 2) Population pro-rated: https://apps.axibase.com/chartlab/013dc374/3/#fullscreen What happened in 2002-2004? As was discussed in m…

By the way, here are two rape definitions used by the FBI: 'legacy' and 'revised': https://www.ucrdatatool.gov/offenses.cfm

Made a difference to Brock Turner's case.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#64

Post by ptype »

jahaja wrote: post #28
ptype wrote: post #21

Ironically coming from DN, who under current editor Wolodarski has lost a huge amount of credibility among Swedish intellectuals. What used to be the premier journalistic publication of Sweden now runs a highly biased agenda, and has been involved in a number of journalistic scandals (cover ups etc).

What scandals are you referring to?

I was on my phone earlier.

DN under Wolodarski has received a lot of criticism, which I suspect you are actually aware of. Please find a few examples below.

Aftonbladet: Journalists question the truthfulness of a series of DN's articles: http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/article23755207.ab

Alice Teodorescu of GP has criticised DN and their journalistic methods on numerous occasions, e.g. "DN on collision course with reality": http://www.gp.se/ledare/teodorescu-dn-p%C3%A5-kollisionskurs... Also worth seeing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRivdUJO1ls

National economist Tino Sanandaji often uncovers errors in DN's journalism, e.g. this example of DN using incorrect statistics: http://tino.us/2014/06/p1-medier-granskar-dn-dn-star-bakom-h...

The DN cover up scandal (their rebuttal): http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/fragor-och-svar-om-dns-hant...

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#65

Post by ptype »

Steer wrote: post #45
ptype wrote: post #21

Ironically coming from DN, who under current editor Wolodarski has lost a huge amount of credibility among Swedish intellectuals. What used to be the premier journalistic publication of Sweden now runs a highly biased agenda, and has been involved in a number of journalistic scandals (cover ups etc).

I find it interesting and telling that you don't present any sources for your argument. Which paper in Sweden does the "Swedish intellectuals" read now? I think it is still DN, but would be interested to hear your sourced argument why this isn't true.

If you read my post again, you will see that I did not actually say that the Swedish intellectuals (for the lack of a better term) are not reading DN, just that DN has lost a lost of credibility. It is my observation that this is becoming more and more of a wide spread view, based on discussions with friends and colleagues. You are right - I'm busted! - I have not conducted a market study of this. But then again, do you have any sources why they still read DN as you claim?

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#66

Post by danielvf »

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #47
danielvf wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Sweden to Chicago seems a bit of a stretch. A number more directly comparable would be the US Non-Black homicide rate, which was 2.54 per 100,000 in 2015. I think that's lower than the Sweden figure in the sibling comment. [Edit: I had said that this rate was also lower than England. I was wrong on that one. ] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

The actual rate for Sweden and the UK is 0.9, each. So even the 'non-black' rate in the US is higher than both, put together. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intenti...

I was wrong on England's rate. Thanks for the correction!

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#67

Post by [deleted] »

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #47
danielvf wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Sweden to Chicago seems a bit of a stretch. A number more directly comparable would be the US Non-Black homicide rate, which was 2.54 per 100,000 in 2015. I think that's lower than the Sweden figure in the sibling comment. [Edit: I had said that this rate was also lower than England. I was wrong on that one. ] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

The actual rate for Sweden and the UK is 0.9, each. So even the 'non-black' rate in the US is higher than both, put together. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intenti...

[deleted]

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#68

Post by dep_b »

willvarfar wrote: post #22
dep_b wrote: post #8

It's a bit weird that a country safer than the US now gets portrayed as a sodom and gomorra of rape and violence. The striking difference between Swedes and immigrants in terms of violent crimes (four times as much, five times for rape) is declared for a large part by the fact that Swedes on average are nice and peaceful people. Fox and Trump blowing everything out of proportion shouldn't stop a healthy debate about…

Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes. It happens that the poorest people in Sweden right now are immigrants. The rape stats are also way different from how they are portrayed in the media. In Sweden, if you are in an abusive relationship, every instance of abuse is counted individually, and as Assange learned, the law is very strict. As other countries tend to do far worse at reporting and prosec…

Chinese people enter countries poor and usually do better soon. Other groups stay poor. I'm sorry to say it but the staying poor part might also be caused by those people themselves, not some external factor they cannot control.

> The rape stats are also way different from how they are portrayed in the media. In Sweden, if you are in an abusive relationship, every instance of abuse is counted individually, and as Assange learned, the law is very strict. As other countries tend to do far worse at reporting and prosecuting abuse, and as other countries tend to count all occurrences of abuse together as one crime, the numbers are not directly comparable to other countries.

Yet in Sweden they measure immigrants and Swedes in the same way and it's five times as much on average while some migrant groups singled out are doing better than native Swedes.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#69

Post by jahaja »

ptype wrote: post #64
jahaja wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What scandals are you referring to?

I was on my phone earlier. DN under Wolodarski has received a lot of criticism, which I suspect you are actually aware of. Please find a few examples below. Aftonbladet: Journalists question the truthfulness of a series of DN's articles: http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/article23755207.ab Alice Teodorescu of GP has criticised DN and their journalistic methods on numerous occasions, e.g. "DN on collision course with r…

This is blatant cherry-picking an I'm saying that as a person with left-wing ideals (DN is a right-wing newspaper). These are not "journalistic scandals" in any sense of the words you're making them out to be.

Furthermore, using the same measurement standards as yourself, some of your sources are questionable at best in this matter. Especially GP which has taken a _sharp_, even populist, right turn since the appointment of Teodorescu, for which they've been much more criticized than DN. Sanandaji is not much better than an opportunist, gaining publicity by fueling a sense of media cover-up among right-wing populists. Lately he's been calling the lack of orders from public libraries for his newly released book about the costs of immigration censorship.

This doesn't not even come close to "lost a huge amount of credibility among Swedish intellectuals" nor "has been involved in a number of journalistic scandals (cover ups etc)". You're simply being dishonest.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#70

Post by paulddraper »

byrnedo wrote: post #58
paulddraper wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, way to cherry pick! The U.S. homicide rate is 4.5.

If you mean that by choosing one city in the US vrs the whole country's rate then you're right. But my point was that Sweden is incomparable to the USA (Sweden has a population approaching 10 million). You'd find it very hard to find a city in the Nordics approaching that of some in the US.

(1) Yes, well I think there's no disagreement that Sweden is far more homogeneous than the US.

Sweden is 99% Caucasian and 66% Lutheran. The US is 63% Caucasian and 23% Catholic. Sweden has 10 million? That's the metropolitan Chicago area.

(2) Here's the way averages work: if US homicide rate is 4.5 (Illinois is 3.5 but let's stick with the national rate) and Chicago is 27, there are five Chicago-equivalents with a homicide rate of 0, or nine Chicago-equivalents with a rate of 2.

Mentioning Chicago as more murderous than Sweden, but failing to mention the nine related cities less murderous is stastical gerrymandering.

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