Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 207 posts

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#61

Post by solipsism »

api wrote: post #54
otalp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's a traditional American libertarian. If you read his book Zero To One, he states that he thinks a fundamental truth that most people don't realize is that improving technology is more important than globalization for the human race, which is fine, but that leads him to the conclusion that things like welfare and tax increases are an abomination holding back progress, which makes him against both. I…

That's a little bit of an oversimplification. Thiel thinks that globalization of development without massive technological advancement will lead to a kind of slow Malthusian catastrophe since current technology (fossil fuel energy systems, slow transit, inefficient power grids, etc.) cannot possibly support the entire human race at a modern developed world standard of living. I don't agree with everything Peter think…

Thiel thinks that globalization of development without massive technological advancement will lead to a kind of slow Malthusian catastrophe

And yet he pretends to lack the sense to realize that there's nothing you can do about that! Globalism is the inevitable result of the capitalism and free markets which Theil purports to champion.

He wants to have his cake (freedom from coercion) and eat it too (the ability to coerce others). It's a perversion of libertarianism that's purely greedy and unprincipled to its core.

I think Theil knows this and thinks he's playing a masterful game of chess against us (the rest of the world).

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#62

Post by threatofrain »

trome wrote: post #2

So, why does anyone pay attention to the truly awful human being known as Peter Thiel? Between his plots to destroy the infrastructure that allowed PayPal and Y Combinator to be built, and his active attempts to rip away rights from other LGBT people, of which he is one, it seems like a poor idea to pay this person any mind.

In my view, rich people have the prerogative to adopt political views which appear contrary to their own interests; but in fact, they can easily achieve those interests elsewhere regardless of political environment.

You can adopt any view on abortion you want if you and the people you know can easily fly to another country to get excellent medical service. What do you care if gun laws are loosened or tightened? You have armed bodyguards, and the kind of gun crime people decry isn't the kind that reaches rich areas.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#63

Post by burkaman »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #46
krath94 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that people generalize about people that vote Republican. Most republicans (or people that vote republican) I have met, including myself, have been supportive of the LGBT community. Not ALL Republicans are against LGBT, just like not all liberals want free government handouts. These generalizations about the "other side" are counter-productive. Also, I'm not saying you came across as generalizing, I know you…

I think the problem is that if you vote Republican because you are fiscally conservative you're making a decision that fiscal conservatism is more important to you than other citizens human/civil rights.

This isn't true of all Republican candidates, but it is true of many of the ones Thiel has donated to.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#64

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

api wrote: post #54
otalp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's a traditional American libertarian. If you read his book Zero To One, he states that he thinks a fundamental truth that most people don't realize is that improving technology is more important than globalization for the human race, which is fine, but that leads him to the conclusion that things like welfare and tax increases are an abomination holding back progress, which makes him against both. I…

That's a little bit of an oversimplification. Thiel thinks that globalization of development without massive technological advancement will lead to a kind of slow Malthusian catastrophe since current technology (fossil fuel energy systems, slow transit, inefficient power grids, etc.) cannot possibly support the entire human race at a modern developed world standard of living. I don't agree with everything Peter think…

That theory has a major blind spot: the increase in demand for a Western standard of living at an unprecedented global scale enables innovation to bring down costs.

Example: Africa has dealt with underinvestment for a long time in many areas, like telecommunications infrastructure. But because of that, many African nations have leapfrogged hardline telecommunications in favor of mobile, resulting in less spending before and after for maintenance of an antiquated system.

Likewise, we in America are dealing with the ramifications of unsustainable sprawl, where entire municipal and county budgets are exhausted just to maintain current infrastructure, particularly roads, and we have nothing left over to invest with.

All in all, that theory is limited to one's faith in humanity to adapt and thrive. We made it through the ice ages and the Toba Catastrophe.

Besides, who in the 21st century is content with aspiring to the living standards of the 20th century? The global poor, perhaps, but once they reach the 20th century, they, like most people, aspire for the 21st.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#65

Post by u_wot_m8 »

angry-hacker wrote: post #17

What about ex president Obama who actually used the tech? So much outrage for Thiel, but where were the protests when Obama wiretapped the world? Ps. I think Thiel is a hypocrite if he really thinks himself as libertarian. Also, despite having money and power I think he has big balls to go against SV where he made himself. I also don't understand how did he became so powerful, every time he talks.. He has charisma of…

> I also don't understand how did he became so powerful, every time he talks.. He has charisma of an old rag.

Because he's a legitimate genius who has helped create and invested in great businesses.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#66

Post by throwaway2048 »

holydude wrote: post #51
throwaway2048 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple people can be bad for reasons entirely their own, "but shes doing it TOOOOOOO" is the reasoning and defense of a child.

Where did he imply he was defending it ? He was just pointing out that Peter Thiel gets all the hate while Zuck and the others are praised as technology innovators and saviors of humanity.

hardly, all the people he named get critisized constantly, here especially.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#67

Post by Anderkent »

potatosoup wrote: post #49
clydethefrog wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the people behind Y Combinator that condemn Trump because according to them he represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants[0], but at the same time have many financial ties with Thiel's practices. They have financial power to take a stand against this threat, but decide not do it. [0] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election

> He represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants As an immigrant myself, I keep seeing famous people write this, but I want some kind of "citation needed." What plans does this actually refer to?

It's not a complaint about any specific plans he has made, it's a complaint about his general approach to those communities. The risk is not that he'll implement this particular idea, it's that all of his ideas are shaped by his abusive personality.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#68

Post by elastic_church »

mattnewton wrote: post #44
rickdale wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It really reminds me of the boy who cried wolf. Republicans made a point to question Obama's faith and whether he is a secret muslim or if he was born here. Meanwhile abhorrent policies are being enacted, but we did get the birth certificate. In the sense of using a distraction to further another agenda I feel like Obama and Trump are the best of the best.

I really don't think their methods are the same here, are you suggesting Obama created distractions like the birthed movement? I think he just went for it. Trump certainly is creating distractions, actively fostering fatigue.

Created? That's not the point

All distractions are favorable when you are accountable to people.

All.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#69

Post by Anderkent »

solipsism wrote: post #61
api wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little bit of an oversimplification. Thiel thinks that globalization of development without massive technological advancement will lead to a kind of slow Malthusian catastrophe since current technology (fossil fuel energy systems, slow transit, inefficient power grids, etc.) cannot possibly support the entire human race at a modern developed world standard of living. I don't agree with everything Peter think…

Thiel thinks that globalization of development without massive technological advancement will lead to a kind of slow Malthusian catastrophe And yet he pretends to lack the sense to realize that there's nothing you can do about that! Globalism is the inevitable result of the capitalism and free markets which Theil purports to champion. He wants to have his cake (freedom from coercion) and eat it too (the ability to co…

Where does Thiel ever argue for or request the ability to coerce others?

Adjusting the system so that other actions are incentivised is not coercion.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#70

Post by zzzeek »

muninn_ wrote: post #57
zzzeek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nonsense. Let's go to libertarian land. There's no government for internal affairs. We live in a town. Are there any police? No police? Really? Of course there are police. The townspeople got tired of all the poors breaking into their houses and shops and whatnot, didn't feel like all individually standing outside holding guard all night, got together to pool their money and hired a police force to handle the issue a…

This has nothing to do with libertarianism nor serves as a coherent critique of it. In fact, some of your points are things that we see readily in governments today. As an example, many corrupt police officers exist in many government systems, including western countries. A critique of libertarianism based on such things is not well thought out.

we live in a democracy. In Ferguson, police were abusive and corrupt. Mass protests followed, media attention was gathered, changes were made.

In libertarian land, mass protests against police corruption and abuse occur, the media is not allowed to enter, the protestors are all shot on sight. The end. The burden is on libertarians to explain exactly why this would not happen in the absense of any democratically elected government.

Post reply on HN