Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 494 posts

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#61

Post by dingaling »

tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

> US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware

Well they can also be detained, for an indeterminate length of time.

That could put their job at risk ( didn't show up for work for a couple of days with no explanation ), their mortgage, their house...

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#62

Post by jrochkind1 »

nkurz wrote: post #30
tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

From the article: The policy also states that CBP or Immigration and Customs Enforcement "may demand technical assistance, including translation or decryption," citing a federal law, 19 US Code Section 507. A related document says that "officers may seek such assistance with or without individualized suspicion." Refusing to comply with this statute is "guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to a fine of not more than $1…

The OP article says this particular law hasn't really been tested in court, nobody's really sure if it's legal or not. One way to find out. I'm up for it. As a US citizen with white skin and money for a lawyer, it's unlikely anything _too_ terrible will happen to me. It is at worst a misdemeanor.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#64

Post by hollander »

RubberSoul wrote: post #32
tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

Makes me wonder what the best options are for cheap phones and laptops that can be used while traveling. Also, does having saved passwords in a computer (for servers, email, GitHub, etc.) mean that CBP could use those passwords to search computers inside the United States? Or is their search power limited to information actually stored on the machine's hard drive.

Put your passwords in a password safe like Keepass, and keep that somewhere in the cloud, PGP-encrypted as an extra layer of security, with a private key that is encrypted as well. Create a special private key for this purpose alone. Download that file when you entered the US and decrypt it.

When exiting, you might wipe the disk if you want to be sure they won't search it when you leave.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#65

Post by mirimir »

Forbo wrote: post #44
gravypod wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you call hacker news social media then you can definitely do it. I do it. I just call or text the people I care about when I'm thinking of them. Nothing is needed from social media.

Yes, I love giving in to chilling effects that modify my behavior out of fear of consequences! Or perhaps a government shouldn't be party to my social life?

I don't like it either. But it's irresponsible to counsel people in ways that set them up for suffering. Protesting should be a conscious choice.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#66

Post by jacquesm »

adekok wrote: post #57
jacquesm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners. The whole idea that this sort of thing is even anywhere near acceptable behavior revolts me.

> Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners. s/foreigners/citizens/ i.e. everyone . I'm a Canadian Citizen. When I enter Canada from abroad, they claim the same rights as the US CBP. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/alain-philippon-cb...

Ugh. Canadian border crossings used to be so nice.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#67

Post by soft_dev_person »

jacquesm wrote: post #39
tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners. The whole idea that this sort of thing is even anywhere near acceptable behavior revolts me.

Yeah, I pretty much decided to never travel to the US again the first time I heard you may be compelled to unlock your Facebook profile for the customs.

Not because I have something particular to hide, but as a gay person in a hostile world I have learned to care about my privacy.

Not a huge loss for me, not a huge loss for the US, but it accumulates.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#68

Post by jrochkind1 »

ashark wrote: post #49
biscuitsandbbq wrote: post #38

This happened to me crossing into Canada and to be honest I really wasn't expecting it. I had tons of very private pictures and messages on there stretching back years. I really didn't want to turn over my password so that 3 border agents could look through all that stuff in some back room, but at the same time I knew there wasn't anything illegal on there. Anyway, I was with my partner and didn't want to ruin her va…

Or instead of going through a bunch of effort in order to risk pissing off border agents with shenanigans, you can buy a dirt-cheap Android phone for travel. Bonus: then you don't have to worry about it being stolen, lost, or broken, either. It'd be a sensible move even without the border search risk. Incidentally, is this limited to phones? Are they only searching these accounts because they're authed to the phone t…

do you have a dirt-cheap android to recommend?

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#69

Post by roywiggins »

rsync wrote: post #47

If your border crossing strategy involves a wiped/clean/factorydefaults device, always, always, always put a zip bomb[1] in place. Name it something helpful like "do_not_open_this_file.zip". They can't say you didn't warn them ... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_bomb

And then get held for hours just to spite you? That doesn't seem worth it to me.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#70

Post by ythn »

leesalminen wrote: post #54
Raphmedia wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another reason never to enter the USA.

There's a show on Netflix that follows the Australian immigration cops. They go hard and frequently examine text messages, email, social, etc. for non resident entrants. If you think this is just the US, you are mistaken.

USA is a surveillance state. Here in UK we are much more progressive and respecting of peoples' privacy /s.
Post reply on HN