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Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

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Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#61
post #25

I cant prove this but my computer blue screened after a Nvidia driver update. It took my several hours to get everything working again because it wouldnt even launch in safe mode. Very frustrating. I wish they had a little more quality control on their drivers.

I ran into this a while back, there was a BSOD in the GTX 980Ti drivers that only got triggered by multi-monitor setups. Hilariously the solution was to use a newer beta driver that hadn't passed WHQL yet. (Rolling back would've worked as well, but I was updating specifically because there was a bug in the previous driver. WebMs in Chrome would start out mostly black w/ fuzzy blocks and after a loop of the content th…

I've 4x GTX 690s 3x dedicated to GFX, 1 to physics. 3 to VFX. I'm seen a number of GSODs with bugcheck VIDEO_MEMORY_MANAGEMENT_INTERAL. Always happens when I've 1 monitor streaming news, primary monitor playing Civ VI.

Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#62
post #15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I have had to live with this bug ( https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/953432/geforce-mobi... , https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10... ) for over half a year now.

I had to revert the Windows 10 Anniversary Update to work around that.

why?

Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#64
post #3

I wonder if AMD drivers have the same attack surfaces as the nvidia drivers Edit: a quick google search turns up CVEs for the old catalyst driver, but none for the newer crimson drivers.

Too bad my laptop can't use those crimson drivers, as AMD no longer support the APU part of the setup that make things like external displays work (and will you please stop trying to be helpful and silently "upgrading" my drivers, Microsoft!).

You can disable driver updates through group policy.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc730606(v=ws.10...

Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#65
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the "Tom" incident I'm not surprised to hear about anything that happens inside NVIDIA. That presentation, months of bad drivers (yes, I was using DDU) and the GFExperience login thing made me switch to another brand.

I didn't know what the "Tom" incident was, but assume it is this, which is deplorable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGrvahez1H8&feature=youtu.be

There is one with better sound

https://youtu.be/iAueZ_VWBUU

Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true on split-memory architectures(desktop) but most mobile GPUs(and a couple consoles) use a unified memory model. Also most browsers use the GPU to speed up rendering so you can pick out things from there too potentially.

I wonder, do you really have to write zero to all the memorycells? Or can you just stop the refresh cycle in hardware and let squares of memory drain and die in one or two cycles?

Even without refreshing the cells they actually last quite a lot longer than you would expect. This is an old research paper on the topic but unfortunately, it looks like all of the images and videos are broken which is a shame because it gave you a great mental picture of the "half-life" so to speak of RAM.

https://citp.princeton.edu/research/memory/

The bottom line is that you would need to stop refreshing it for minutes if not longer to be sure that there wasn't an information leak and if the memory is cooled down it'll last a great deal longer without being refreshed and even still keep the majority of the contents after hours of being removed from a running system if they are cooled using liquid nitrogen. Either way one or two cycles isn't going to really matter at all.

Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#67
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why in hell would you spend hours of work on your free time for this ? Sure, you can either return the items, or report the bug, or hope that you've managed to find a workaround. There's no need to discourage people who want to spend their own time on getting the bug fixed so that others benefit. Not everybody thinks the same way you do.

Oh I report bugs all the time. For open source projects. When I pay hundreds of euros for a product I expect it to work. Strangely it something we don't expect for anything related to computing. We have such double standard. If you buy a washing machine and it doesn't work, the brand sucks. If you buy a graphic card that makes you OS crash, it's just nvidia needs a little help. Replace nvidia with any gadget or softw…

I know what you're saying, and I do agree, but as you know, not all problems will be Nvidia's fault.

I guess it depends on how obscure/serious the bug is, but the reason we can't have everything working always is because people want to be able to put whatever random hardware and software of their choice together and have it all work. It's not that simple.

There's a lot of stuff that has to go right for things to not have problems. PCs have become insanely complicated and there's almost unlimited chances for a particular combination of hardware/software to have bugs out there.

If you paid (a lot) more for a certified system, then maybe you could expect it to work flawlessly. Are there vendors that do that? I guess it would have to be for only a particular software setup as well.

Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#68
post #3

I wonder if AMD drivers have the same attack surfaces as the nvidia drivers Edit: a quick google search turns up CVEs for the old catalyst driver, but none for the newer crimson drivers.

Too bad my laptop can't use those crimson drivers, as AMD no longer support the APU part of the setup that make things like external displays work (and will you please stop trying to be helpful and silently "upgrading" my drivers, Microsoft!).

> and will you please stop trying to be helpful and silently "upgrading" my drivers, Microsoft!

Or, I finally got it to appear to work. Details on how it really works, the documentation didn't really say. Why it works now, I don't really know. I never understood it well and, instead, just threw it against the wall in various ways until it appeared to stick.

Another point is, after such a remote Microsoft change, I no longer really know what went into my system or relevant boot partition or how to rebuild it starting with what I already have. That is, when I built the system, I took careful notes on just what I did so that I could retrace if necessary; with remote changes from Microsoft, my notes are now inaccurate. My system is no longer reproducible. So, if next week I make a change that ruins my boot partition, then I can't rebuild to just before the change -- unless I have backed up that boot partition with, say, NTBACKUP which I do use. Indeed, with the system I am building now, I'm planning a boot drive with several bootable partitions and a second drive with backups via NTBACKUP (if that is still the best approach on Windows) of various increments of the boot partitions.

That is, in general I very much want to know just what, and quite generally and in as much detail as possible, (A) the heck is on my system and (B) how to get back to some earlier state.

All this skeptical caution is a special case of rules:

(1) If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

(2) If anything can go wrong, then it will.

(3) There is no independence; if you change one thing, then no telling what else may be affected.

(4) The fundamental perversity of material objects.

etc.

I very well remember, from when I was at IBM's Watson lab and we visited some high end customers, how when IBM came out with a fix, update, change, or new version, the site would run the change for months just on a test system before they permitted it on-line for production work. Part of this was, if the system crashed for an hour, then the CIO could lose his bonus. Two such in one year, and he could lose his job. They very much did not want systems that crashed. They were very clear about that.

Once, out of IBM, I visited the main NASDAQ site in Trumbull, CT: They were doing their core work on Non-Stop systems. IIRC, their attitude was that their Non-Stop systems didn't stop and didn't need updates.

Here is some irony: First the vendor sells their system as the greatest. Second, the vendor says they have an update.

Hmm .... If their greatest needs an update, then how about the update?

To borrow from the movie The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, "Updates? What updates? We don't need no stink'n updates."

Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#69
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear hear. Can they also please be less than 100megs in size? I think nVidia's clock in at 300 right now. I just want the driver and recording/streaming software. Maybe you could open up the required api to write a third party Shadow Play...

Yeah, the NV mobile driver clocks in at 292 MB (W7 x64) right now. One thing that certainly blows up the size is that the NV driver installer bundles support for everything from the old NV 8600M - which IIRC was released in 2007. If there's one thing I certainly can't whine about in times where phones carry less than 2 years updateability, then it is that NVidia still provides up-to-date drivers for a GPU chipset nea…

I agree, but I recently bought a gtx1060, which meant I had to update to the latest drivers, which unfortunately don't support the other card I have in that machine (I forget what model, it's either a gt520 or a gt210). I only wanted to use that other card to connect extra monitors.

You can't run two Nvidia cards off different driver versions.

Anyway, the gtx1060 supports four monitors by itself which is enough but I needed to buy some cables.

Nvidia drivers are super bloated though.

Re: Attacking the Windows Nvidia Driver

#70
Slightly off topic but with all the video expertise in this thread, I want to ask anyway! :-)

I'm currently selecting parts for my next computer, to be used for continued development of the Windows .NET software for the Web site for my startup and also for my first Web server available to beta testers and then to the public on the Internet.

So, sure, I need a video card. Of course, I will do some routine Web browsing, maybe watch a movie at YouTube or Netflix. But I have never played a video game and, trying to get my business going, have no intention of playing a video game.

So, looking at information on video cards, it appears that maybe the card should support hardware acceleration of Microsoft's DirectX version 12 and also maybe some recent version of OpenGL.

Question 1: Why should I move from just VGA, that is, get just a VGA card and not even get a graphics card? What will I get from a graphics card I really need and can't get from just VGA?

Question 2: If I get a graphics card, will DirectX 12 hardware acceleration on a graphics card help for some of Web browsing or movie watching?

Question 3: Same as Question 2 but for OpenGL?

Some people on this tread may have some good answers. As far as I can tell, good answers on the Internet are like hen's teeth -- it looks like everyone wants to sell graphics cards for the latest gaming experience.

Thanks!

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