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Double life as a KGB agent

theguardian.com

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Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#61

Post by angry_octet »

markdown wrote: post #50
arkades wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lost my respect for the Guardian a while back. They were reporting on hostilities in Israel. They had a side-bar for "Related Articles", which were one after the other - critical of Israel as being an unprovoked aggressor. Fine, if that's the truth, except: Every article I opened had a long lead-in about Israeli aggression, its consequences, etc. Every article had buried in the last paragraph, practically mumbling…

Israel is occupying Palestine. When Palestinians fight back, Israelis can't claim to have been provoked, when their occupation is the original provocation. It's like claiming Hitler just justified in killing 6 million jews because after he killed 1 million, a few jews tried to fight back, and he had to kill another 5 million because he was provoked.

I think "original provocation" is a little hard to claim when we are talking about Jerusalem. Even in recent history, the '48 Arab-Israeli war, pan-Arab forces attempted to crush the nascent Jewish enclave.

Also, I find your Holocaust allusion extremely tasteless.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#62

Post by diebir »

This sounds true and similar to what I thought it would be, based on how laughably bad were the Russian "illegals" caught in 2010. It is virtually impossible to fit in having been born and raised in a different culture. Even simply the accent is almost impossible to overcome (women seem to have better luck defeating the accent than men and you have a chance up to the age of 17 or so).

The Americans is a cool show, but the real life illegals could not fool anyone.

These days Russia probably has no need for this type of presence, since there are enough Russians living in the US and enough of them support Putin that a small percentage may choose to work as spies. Same for China.

Another interesting detail that came out of the 2010 illegal bust was that America is so diverse and people are so respectful of privacy, that one of the spies was doing just fine with an American name ("Jack Ryan" or "Patric Foley" or something like), fully American "legend" and a heavy Russian accent. People wondered but nobody asked any questions.

P.S. And who needs spies when you can have a whole administration? :)

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#63

Post by patrick_haply »

sn9 wrote: post #34
quakeguy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expand, Oppenheimer, Turing, Feynman and even Gauss come to mind. Really stupid comment.

Those weren't engineers. Mathematicians and physicists, really.

The KGB spy from the article itself wasn't even an engineer, but a chemist.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#64

Post by quirkafleeg »

pjc50 wrote: post #25

For people who like this sort of thing: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v10/n16/paul-foot/the-great-times-they... (on the British Royal family being infiltrated by fascists). The TV series Deutchland 83 is also well worth watching for a snappy spy drama about a young man from East Germany being coerced into being a double agent.

There was also a great four part BBC comedy-drama in 1991 called Sleepers (not to be confused with the completely different 1996 movie of the same name).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101200/

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#65

Post by galfarragem »

CalChris wrote: post #2

In the end, it all seems so mundane. Secretive to be sure, but a talented life accomplishing nothing. Well, maybe an improvement on East Germany in the 80s but that's it.

> but a talented life accomplishing nothing'.

For what it's worth, he managed to accomplish several 'lifes' in just one lifetime.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#66

Post by mathattack »

meowface wrote: post #19
RealityVoid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading a book about Gunther Guillaume, an east-german spy in Germany. The same feeling resonated throughout the book, the job is, as you said, secretive, but mundane. Interestingly, I would expect people that choose to go into this line of work to know this, since most all realistic books and media leave show how utterly lonely and boring it is. On the other hand, I guess there are spy handlers ane their…

Being a spymaster sounds far more fun and interesting than being a spy.

It seems worse to me. Just sorting through all these memos trying to figure out which people are and aren't important, and which data may be relevant. id the business is mundane, middle management isn't exciting.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#67

Post by TezlaKoil »

diebir wrote: post #62

This sounds true and similar to what I thought it would be, based on how laughably bad were the Russian "illegals" caught in 2010. It is virtually impossible to fit in having been born and raised in a different culture. Even simply the accent is almost impossible to overcome (women seem to have better luck defeating the accent than men and you have a chance up to the age of 17 or so). The Americans is a cool show, bu…

> Even simply the accent is almost impossible to overcome (women seem to have better luck defeating the accent than men and you have a chance up to the age of 17 or so).

Accent reduction does not work for everyone (see e.g. Bela Lugosi), but its success rate is much better than what your post would suggest.

Three of the 2010 illegals (Chapman, Mills and Zottoli) had Russian accents. Their neighbors knew that they were Russian, and said that they never tried to conceal their national background. On the other hand, nobody could tell that Heathfield and Foley weren't real Americans.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#68

Post by 77pt77 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #53
77pt77 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald Are you familiar with Sam Harris' objections to his character?

Or that he continues to claim that his PRISM reporting was correct, despite lacking any evidence to support his claims and having seen irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

I don't know much about him or his work but he does seem to be a very polarizing figure.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#69

Post by ianderf »

sangnoir wrote: post #60
ianderf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You life in the Middle Ages definitely would have been way much better. /s

Don't get too nostalgic about the middle ages: the landed gentry who will own the AI/fully automated factories will occasionally require mechanical-turk-type work done by the serfs. Which side will you be on when your job gets automated?

That's an interesting twist. So my job that requires knowledge and brainwork gets fully automated, but mechanical-turk-type work somehow is not?

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#70

Post by markdown »

angry_octet wrote: post #61
markdown wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is occupying Palestine. When Palestinians fight back, Israelis can't claim to have been provoked, when their occupation is the original provocation. It's like claiming Hitler just justified in killing 6 million jews because after he killed 1 million, a few jews tried to fight back, and he had to kill another 5 million because he was provoked.

I think "original provocation" is a little hard to claim when we are talking about Jerusalem. Even in recent history, the '48 Arab-Israeli war, pan-Arab forces attempted to crush the nascent Jewish enclave. Also, I find your Holocaust allusion extremely tasteless.

> Even in recent history, the '48 Arab-Israeli war, pan-Arab forces attempted to crush the nascent Jewish enclave.

If you're going that far back, why not just a handful of years earlier? Palestine getting flooded with immigrants whose sole purpose was to replace the incumbent population and establish their own state.

The American far right is terrified that muslims are going to take over an establish sharia law... all based on nonsense. The Palestinians actually had that happen to them, and you don't think they were justified in feeling invaded?

> Also, I find your Holocaust allusion extremely tasteless.

Of course it was. That was why it was said. I find your defence of the Israeli apartheid and their continued occupation of Palestine and brutal oppression of a hopeless people to be just as tasteless.

EDIT: In any case, thank you for explaining the original downvote, unlike the others.

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