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Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

militarytimes.com

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Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#61

Post by megous »

RileyJames wrote: post #10
cyberferret wrote: post #4

I understand that for operational secrecy reason, not all action would be published, but I would have thought there should be at least post mission briefings and outcomes being discussed by news sources and political leaders after the fact? For instance, here in Australia I know there has been a squadron of F/A-18s conducting bombing and strike campaigns in Afghanistan, but we don't hear anything at all about the sor…

I had no idea, what (if any) details are reported and where? Do you suggest any sources I can follow to stay more informed of Australian involvement?

Australia is one of the least transparent countries with regards to airstrikes. It would be nice if there was public pressure for them to be more transparent.

https://twitter.com/airwars/status/822008554316066816

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#62

Post by andrei_says_ »

fsloth wrote: post #28
andrei_says_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older I get the more interesting and sensible Chomsky gets. Until a few years ago I was perceiving him as boring and monotone and now I am seeing a fierce warrior of truth* holding language as his weapon. This 9 min. excerpt on propaganda terms in the Media is especially appropriate. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vmoXze-Higc *I don't mean some objective truth out there but a viewpoint which is rooted in his very…

I wonder what aspect of Chomsky makes him uninteresting. Maybe it's that his message - trying to point out the human flaws of his governmemt - goes so much against the grain of hollywood aided propaganda that people presume it's either minute details or just wrong?

What made it difficult for me to sustain focus while listening to him was his near-monotone delivery.

But now I almost appreciate it.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#63

Post by mongmong »

proee wrote: post #34
kurttheviking wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i'm disappointed that i haven't seen a single member of the media or Democratic party establishments talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. I have been hearing and reading about the expansion of Obama's drone program for years in "the media". Some quick Googling shows several examples. - http://www.npr.org/2013/04/28/179597464/leading-senate-democ... - http://www.npr.org/2012/06/20/155389081/are-drones-…

Just because you posted a few example articles, does not negate the fact that the media fails to provide front-page coverage of such an important issue.

I dont understand this notion of media responsibility to report on matters of grave importance and substance. As long as media is profit driven (which the vast majority it is) I expect nothing from them other than to please their shareholders. If reporting on drones drove more clicks and generated more page views we'd see media rushing to report on such coverage. The fact that they don't to me says it's a demand problem. People just are not interested in facing up to news that their government is bombing other countries in their name.

Public news organisations, on the other hand, should definitely be held to the expectation of reporting on issues in priority of importance, with not a shred of concern placed on how popular the reporting will become.

This is not surprising at all that npr has been covering this extensively, and also nobody bothered to listen.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#64

Post by breatheoften »

megous wrote: post #26

Other thing that is massively underreported on much bigger scale than actual air strikes are civilian casualties. Presumably so that Americans, or Russians or whoever of the other N countries that bomb people regularly can justify killing thousands of civilians in middle east a year by mistake. It is not a mistake though, it's a calculated acceptable collateral murder where the government determines some acceptable r…

The war on terrorism is so bloody pointless -- the military has achieved exactly nothing since 9/11. All I could think about the day after 9/11 was the hundreds of thousands (now millions!) of innocent people which had nothing to do with that attack that were going to be killed for no reason ...

It's ironic that the largest part of the us government which has also produced the worst results, gets a free pass from the anti-big-government crowd...

I would love for a politician to talk about the war on terror as a failure as big as the war in Vietnam and to start finally talking about ending it ...

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#65

Post by zumu »

bpodgursky wrote: post #17
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity There's a lot of nuance here, because there isn't really a (current) clear-cut case of the US bombing a sovereign nation where the government has not given the US permission. Of the current active campaigns: - Afghanistan - Iraq - Pakistan Each of these countries has a functioning government, even mostly democratically ele…

Do Afghanistan and Iraq really count given they were invaded and their governments replaced with puppet regimes? How could the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan ever afford to say 'no' to the US?

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#66

Post by montyboy_us »

Diplomacy alone doesn't afford us the lifestyle we so enjoy. I believe we are lucky to even have the option to ignore the where and how our privileged position in global society is sustained. No one is really hiding this from us, it is that we choose not to look.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#67

Post by lawnchair_larry »

dcposch wrote: post #11

i'm disappointed that hardly any members of the media or Democratic party establishment talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. we have a long list of names. the executive branch of our government curates the list unilaterally and in secret. then, we cross names off the list by killing them. sometimes, they're American citizens. often, they're in countries we're at peace or even allied with. there are chil…

> there are children in Yemen right now who are afraid of blue skies. drones fly high enough to be invisible to the naked eye; most strikes are carried out in clear weather.

Some adults get PTSD just from being in a car accident. Growing up in this environment must thoroughly destroy a child's sanity. I wonder what the the US drone campaign is teaching an entire generation now approaching adulthood.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#68

Post by megous »

DanBC wrote: post #60
megous wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cluster munitions are bad, but you have to consider that people often try to hide in houses, in cellars during air raids in the city. Cluster munition will not do much to those people, other than being insanely noisy and terrifying. What will kill those people is a bomb that will drop the house on them. Indiscriminate killing is a function of decision making process, not the munition itself.

> Cluster munition will not do much to those people, Not all of the bomblets explode, so when those people come out of their houses they've got to not disturb any of the bomblets.

I understand that. People try to collect the bomblets afterwards though, especially in the city. So the harm is somewhat limited.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#69

Post by lawnchair_larry »

megous wrote: post #26

Other thing that is massively underreported on much bigger scale than actual air strikes are civilian casualties. Presumably so that Americans, or Russians or whoever of the other N countries that bomb people regularly can justify killing thousands of civilians in middle east a year by mistake. It is not a mistake though, it's a calculated acceptable collateral murder where the government determines some acceptable r…

Don't forget that as far as body counts go, the USG defines "terrorists" as any male appearing to be of military age. There is no such thing as a dead civilian male in a strike zone.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#70

Post by bpodgursky »

packetized wrote: post #51
bpodgursky wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only think of one contrary example within the last decade -- Libya, where Gaddafi was still in power when we started bombing. It was complicated, and I think in the end it was a poor decision, but I don't think it's fair to consider it wrong or evil. Looking farther back you find Iraq and Afghanistan on the list with similar disclaimers. In any case, neither was a "lob a few missiles from the stratosphere and p…

Philippines, possibly - depending on who you talk to. https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/deadly-drone-strike-on-mu...

The US has tons of bases on the Philippines and there's a lot of training/cooperation. I can't imagine that the US didn't have permission and cooperation there, if it happened.

FWIW the Philippine military denies that it happened -- http://news.abs-cbn.com/nation/07/09/12/philippine-military-.... Which is at odds with objecting to it.

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