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Incorporating a limited company in Germany

thomas.skowron.biz

61–70 of 113 posts

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#61
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did that from Italy, wouldn't do it now because of the uncertainty related to brexit. We'll see in the near future.

Don't you need to have physical presence in the UK to open a company?

You just need a postbox/business-address which is usually hosted by the service provider you use to do the UK registration and all that.

Note that a Limited doesn't free you from having to deal with the local authorities (Gewerbeamt in Germany, tax office, etc).

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#62
post #25

Not sure if there is a specific benefit in incorporating in Germany vs some other EU country. If there isn't, I'd suggest looking into Estonia and their e-residency program. They have a fixed 20% corporate tax which you only pay when you take the money out of the company (as opposed to paying on income). I've recently applied and the bureaucracy has been a breeze so far. You can find some more info at https://bkpk.me…

If you direct the company from Germany, you'll be accountable for taxes in Germany anyway, regardless of where you incorporated.

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#63
post #28

For the context: 7 years running a UK limited from outside the UK (until 2014) and 3 years running a GmbH from Germany (now). In both cases, I am a chemical engineer and I am doing mostly programming/consulting work[0]. At the end of the day, it costs basically the same if you are in UK or in Germany because your cost will be your salary and if you read the advices here you are anyway to small to run some special tax…

> 1500 to 2500€/year for the "end of the year" accounting

Why does it cost so much? In Sweden it's like two entries in the book that take 5 minutes to do and generating two reports from your program.

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#64
post #24
post #15

Don't worry, your government representative has some good ideas to improve the startup landscape and internet companies! You'll get a 40% corporate tax deduction for the first 4 years if you crowdfund. There are, of course, specific conditions and regulatory work for the crowdfunding agency which mean no existing one (that anyone here has ever heard of) meets the bar and will essentially require a local operation to…

Which monkey law was that? Must have missed that new "great" idea.

Wasn't in Germany, but I'd be surprised if you wouldn't find similar "initiatives" over there. It's a common EU disease.

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#65
post #63
post #28

For the context: 7 years running a UK limited from outside the UK (until 2014) and 3 years running a GmbH from Germany (now). In both cases, I am a chemical engineer and I am doing mostly programming/consulting work[0]. At the end of the day, it costs basically the same if you are in UK or in Germany because your cost will be your salary and if you read the advices here you are anyway to small to run some special tax…

> 1500 to 2500€/year for the "end of the year" accounting Why does it cost so much? In Sweden it's like two entries in the book that take 5 minutes to do and generating two reports from your program.

Because it is all "vetted" by a registered accountant which is taking liability if the reporting is not don the right way. You can cut on the monthly fee for VAT/salary etc. by doing it yourself but if you consider that it costs you 80€ per month and that you invoice 100€ per hour of your work, it is not worth your time to have worry with this stuff.

The end of the year book stuff is a fee based on your turnover, it is regulated by the german accountant association.

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#66
post #11

Estonia, simple forms, simple tax system (even a layman can understand it and can do their own taxes or small biz taxes). No need to visit to open a company or bank account if you have an e-resident card. E-residency cards are available to citizens of most nations.

I guess the issue is if the actual country from where the company operates is cool with it.

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#67
post #28

For the context: 7 years running a UK limited from outside the UK (until 2014) and 3 years running a GmbH from Germany (now). In both cases, I am a chemical engineer and I am doing mostly programming/consulting work[0]. At the end of the day, it costs basically the same if you are in UK or in Germany because your cost will be your salary and if you read the advices here you are anyway to small to run some special tax…

Do you feel that any of the bureaucracy creates an undue burden – or one that could possibly thwart a company which would otherwise achieve scale? I'm asking because the article seems to buy into the narrative that these rules and regulation create an actual obstacle to ventures such as google ever being founded in Germany, and having gone through the process a few times, I can neither find any step of the process th…

The 2k/y (a little more) is what I pay for a one person GmbH serviced by an accountant. If you employ people or earn significant money, it'll cost you extra (employing people has its own filing/processing requirements, but the tax-account will do that for you, so it is not 'hard' per se). Note: you can reduce costs by doing a lot of stuff on your own, but well, do you want to? :-)

BTW: If you plan Google big and want to take on multiple investors pouring in 100k's or millions, you wouldn't usually found a 'GmbH' or UG but an 'AG' (Aktiengesellschaft, a share based construct). This involves more reporting/regulations but also makes it easier to deal with the ownership of the company.

Wrt your 'Google ever being founded in Germany'. The process of founding a company is not an obstacle, that part is easy enough. Other obstacles are manyfold: you don't have nearly as much VC money available, there are strong data protection laws, employing people is a significant liability in Germany (vs California where you can quit them any day), side-costs of employment are very high (state required insurances for medical, unemployment, disability, pension, ...) etc etc.

Summary: If you plan a small software/IT business it probably makes sense to just start with an UG and see where it goes.

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#68
post #28

For the context: 7 years running a UK limited from outside the UK (until 2014) and 3 years running a GmbH from Germany (now). In both cases, I am a chemical engineer and I am doing mostly programming/consulting work[0]. At the end of the day, it costs basically the same if you are in UK or in Germany because your cost will be your salary and if you read the advices here you are anyway to small to run some special tax…

Do you feel that any of the bureaucracy creates an undue burden – or one that could possibly thwart a company which would otherwise achieve scale? I'm asking because the article seems to buy into the narrative that these rules and regulation create an actual obstacle to ventures such as google ever being founded in Germany, and having gone through the process a few times, I can neither find any step of the process th…

In my case the turnover is around 100k€. The cost are based on turnover for most of them.

For the general question about rules etc. At my level, it is a non problem because everything is taken into account by my accountant. It means, it is very easy. Also, the GmbH structure is the same for everybody, it means, everybody must follow these strict rules and as a customer told me: "You have a GmbH, we can trust you that you do the things the right way".

So, for me, these relatively small requirements at the start are a way to keep the non serious people out of business. This is good for the trust when running your business on the long run. I like it this way.

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#69
post #28

For the context: 7 years running a UK limited from outside the UK (until 2014) and 3 years running a GmbH from Germany (now). In both cases, I am a chemical engineer and I am doing mostly programming/consulting work[0]. At the end of the day, it costs basically the same if you are in UK or in Germany because your cost will be your salary and if you read the advices here you are anyway to small to run some special tax…

In the UK, it is doable to do your own accounts, as a one man band.

Re: Incorporating a limited company in Germany

#70
post #69
post #28

For the context: 7 years running a UK limited from outside the UK (until 2014) and 3 years running a GmbH from Germany (now). In both cases, I am a chemical engineer and I am doing mostly programming/consulting work[0]. At the end of the day, it costs basically the same if you are in UK or in Germany because your cost will be your salary and if you read the advices here you are anyway to small to run some special tax…

In the UK, it is doable to do your own accounts, as a one man band.

Of course, a lot of small companies use accountants anyway, but I've heard of fees in the £100's, not 1000's.
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