Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container • Hacker News Board

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#61

Post by pavel_lishin » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:30 PM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #50

ComputerGuru wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say corn, then potato. But you're right, the startup isn't being all that forthcoming with details and it's likely their claims are (greatly) exaggerated, or perhaps, from a purely "well, technically..." point-of-view. There's an excellent article that champions the calories-per-acre metric by WP: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/in-defense-of-... In the calorie department, corn is king [..] corn…

If I was designing a two-acre farm to feed my family, I wouldn't devote much space to corn. Corn is a very useful crop but mostly once it's processed and you need a lot of it. Here's what I think I'd grow: Potatoes - Incredibly easy to grow. Produces a ton of food. Can be grown in trash cans on otherwise unusable land. Very versatile and useful in so many cuisines. If I had to place my bets on one staple crop, it's p…

Seconding this. My dad's been trying to grow a bit of corn on our land in Texas for years, probably decades at this point. All we have to show for it is a once-a-year small ear of corn on Thanksgiving.

The potatoes, on the other hand, he grows by the bucket in piles of hay thrown into old, bald tires. I suspect the damned things will grow in anything that's been near a nutrient.

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#62

Post by ctdonath » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #15

>...and even individuals who want to start a farm. As a person who lives in a farming area this seems like putting a computer and a box of red bull in a box and labeling it "computer programmer kit". I'm not a farmer but things like crop rotation, regulations, WHIMIS (pesticides/herbicides), dangers such as the PTO on the tractor and other farm dangers all needed training. You see at least once per year some farm han…

It's a lot more like putting an iPad and MacBook pre-loaded with Xcode, git, other handy software, iTunes U courses, and a list of primary research & resource URLs with step-by-step directions for signing up to free & prepaid services.

While such "in-a-box" products are obviously limited & biased, they are a tremendously useful starting point for people who want to begin an endeavor but don't know where to start, don't want to get bogged down in selecting basic tools/services they don't yet understand, and don't yet know even the "well anyone who knows anything about XYZ knows you need at least a ABC and a PDQ" stuff.

Of course the contents are imperfect. BUT IT'S A START. Give someone what they need for a sensible starting point, then they can soon learn what they need to head in the direction they decide to go (after they know enough to understand what the options really are).

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#63

Post by jonlucc » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #41

jbob2000 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We have a three-part training program that comes with the box. One: Covering sustainable farming, making sure everyone knows a little bit in terms of crop rotation, and composting, and intercropping. Two: Covering technology use and maintenance, making sure that the individuals know how to maintain and troubleshoot all of the components of the farm. Three: Farming as an enterprise, making sure that there is a market…

That's a lot of investment for someone getting their feet wet. I've been growing food for my family at home for the last four years and while I don't have two acres to farm, I can tell you that equipment has been the least of my problems. Learning to grow food has been a gradual process for me, learning what works for my soil and my climate. I can't imagine trying to start with a Conex full of equipment and two acres…

There was some internet co-op type company whose name escapes me right now, but they basically did this kind of work for farmers (and would be very helpful for newcomers). The idea was that every farmer who is a member will put in their crop yields along with location, soil quality, exact seed and source, how much fertilizer, etc. All of that data is then available to the other members.

So I could sign up, go on there and decide what to plant and how to do it from that kind of site. Maybe I heard of this on a This Week In Startups podcast?

Edit: I've found it. It's called Farmer's Business Network [1] and I did indeed hear about it on a This Week in Startups podcast [2].

[1] https://www.farmersbusinessnetwork.com/ [2] http://thisweekinstartups.com/amol-deshpande-fbn/

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#64

Post by jonknee » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

jartelt wrote: post #52

atourgates wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was trying to do the math here too. Here's what I came up with. 1) Shipping Container - ~$2,000 2) Tin Shed - Maybe another ~$1,000 3) Hoop Greenhouse - ~$400 [1] 4) 3Kwh Solar Plant with Batteries - ~$8,500 [2] 5) 2 Acre Drip Irrigation System - ~$3,000 [3] 6) WiFi Access - $1,000 (I have no idea what hardware/capabilities they're delivering here, but it seems like that's a safe number) 7) A Bunch of Hand Farming…

It's common to include a profit margin in pricing. Apple makes an iPhone for $600.

All those pieces do have profit margin built into them...

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#65

Post by GrinningFool » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

witty_username wrote: post #31

daveguy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-profit doesn't mean the company can't make a profit on what it sells or even pay employees a fair salary. It does mean that profits go back into the company, rather than having profits siphoned off by investors and shareholders. Non-profit is pro-reinvestment and therefore pro-scaleup.

Without profits investors and shareholders won't invest. Indeed, you could consider investors and shareholders in a similar manner to workers and lenders; investors provide money and in exchange the company gives them profits.

> Indeed, you could consider investors and shareholders in a similar manner to workers and lenders; investors provide money and in exchange the company gives them profits.

To clarify:

Investors provide money once and in exchange the company gives them (or whomever they transfer the stock to) profits forever.

Is there any model which allows a structure for stocks to expire after a reasonable period (10-20 years but it would vary by industry).

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#66

Post by jonstokes » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #10

roel_v wrote: post #2

Pretty light on details, even the website of this company itself. The claim of being able to feed 150 people off 2 acres (about 1 hectare, for those of us who like to think in units that make sense) is a pretty wild one. Maybe you could grow potatoes with [150 x 1700 x 365] calories in them in a climate where you can grow year round, but that's surely not what they're insinuating in their marketing pictures.

I have troubles in computing the BOM (Bill Of Materials) of such a thing. 1) a container 2) a tin shed leaning on it on one side 3) a small plastic? nursery/seeding house on the other side 4) a 3 Kwh solar plant (including batteries, etc.) 5) a bunch of pumps (and I presume pipes) for drip irrigation 6) web connectivity 7) possibly a bunch of hand farming tools do not sum up to costs that justify the US$ 50,000/60,00…

I think there is a thread above this one that nails the discrepancy: the target market here isn't poor Ethiopian villages. Rather, the target market is NGOs and governments who have funding to buy overpriced but cool stuff that looks like it will Make A Difference.

So you make something that's ostensibly targeted at poor rural villagers, and sell it to some deep-pocketed do-gooder entity at a huge markup.

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#67

Post by rmason » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:44 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #15

>...and even individuals who want to start a farm. As a person who lives in a farming area this seems like putting a computer and a box of red bull in a box and labeling it "computer programmer kit". I'm not a farmer but things like crop rotation, regulations, WHIMIS (pesticides/herbicides), dangers such as the PTO on the tractor and other farm dangers all needed training. You see at least once per year some farm han…

I could see one peace corp worker supporting two of these in a village. Ideally though he'd have to support two full crop years before there would be a chance that this would be self supporting. Even then a key part would break and the villagers would be unable to fund its replacement.

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#68

Post by mistercow » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #67

dghughes wrote: post #15

>...and even individuals who want to start a farm. As a person who lives in a farming area this seems like putting a computer and a box of red bull in a box and labeling it "computer programmer kit". I'm not a farmer but things like crop rotation, regulations, WHIMIS (pesticides/herbicides), dangers such as the PTO on the tractor and other farm dangers all needed training. You see at least once per year some farm han…

I could see one peace corp worker supporting two of these in a village. Ideally though he'd have to support two full crop years before there would be a chance that this would be self supporting. Even then a key part would break and the villagers would be unable to fund its replacement.

Also wouldn't the economics of that be pretty sticky? They'd be competing with local farmers.

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#69

Post by ctdonath » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #41

jbob2000 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We have a three-part training program that comes with the box. One: Covering sustainable farming, making sure everyone knows a little bit in terms of crop rotation, and composting, and intercropping. Two: Covering technology use and maintenance, making sure that the individuals know how to maintain and troubleshoot all of the components of the farm. Three: Farming as an enterprise, making sure that there is a market…

That's a lot of investment for someone getting their feet wet. I've been growing food for my family at home for the last four years and while I don't have two acres to farm, I can tell you that equipment has been the least of my problems. Learning to grow food has been a gradual process for me, learning what works for my soil and my climate. I can't imagine trying to start with a Conex full of equipment and two acres…

Not everyone has the luxury or desire for a "gradual process", but may have at least a sensible starting fund and the motivation to make it work. Sometimes the window of opportunity is small, and diving in fast is important (say, realize you have to grow your own food and spring is progressing - if you don't plant ASAP you're not getting to harvest).

I've long considered a similar "in a [shipping container] box" for fast-start retail establishments. Have access to retail space? have just days/hours to put up a fast-food shop? won't be perfect, but the box contains what you need to get a functioning restaurant delivered & running in hours. Likewise I can appreciate an "in a box" for a farm; get some cheap land and get what you need to reach harvest before snowfall.

Re: Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container

#70

Post by sqeaky » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 5:46 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #62

dghughes wrote: post #15

>...and even individuals who want to start a farm. As a person who lives in a farming area this seems like putting a computer and a box of red bull in a box and labeling it "computer programmer kit". I'm not a farmer but things like crop rotation, regulations, WHIMIS (pesticides/herbicides), dangers such as the PTO on the tractor and other farm dangers all needed training. You see at least once per year some farm han…

It's a lot more like putting an iPad and MacBook pre-loaded with Xcode, git, other handy software, iTunes U courses, and a list of primary research & resource URLs with step-by-step directions for signing up to free & prepaid services. While such "in-a-box" products are obviously limited & biased, they are a tremendously useful starting point for people who want to begin an endeavor but don't know where to start, don…

$50,000 is pretty expensive for "a start". That is the price of a decent farmhand in the Midwest (for a year, maybe two if you don't like him so much) and probably a huge plot of land and a few employees in poor countries.