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Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

m.brianmcmanus.org

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Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#61

Post by user5994461 »

rz2k wrote: post #58
georgespencer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sounds unbelievably risky for the people giving the references to have long, nuanced conversations about someone's potential weaknesses in a new job. I don't think I said anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong) that we're asking anything to do with their ability in the new job. We're asking about how they performed in their previous job. > the people providing the references are at the mercy of your interpretations…

I do agree with what you're saying, but also know of instances in finance where people have been fired for theft, then fired for the same thing again, because people were too wary of giving any information other than period of employment. Similar stories also occur among managers that move from one small town government to the next. The laws that these people are benefiting from are meant to protect people like whist…

These laws also protect you against the manager who didn't like you, the terrible boss, or simply the co-worker who had different business goals than you.

There characters are far more common than cases of thefts. Don't want them to have lasting implications on your career.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#62

Post by user5994461 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #15

My sense of every recruiter I've interacted with is that they have made a few deals with specific companies and they are just trying to sell me on them. Like a travel agent who only sells trips to a handful of specific resorts.

Yep. That's exactly what I've noticed.

1) A recruiter will do everything to place you at one of his [very few] positions. No matter how bad it is for you.

2) Recruiters inside a firms are competing internally against each other and they each have different portfolios.

Better have the right recruiter who's got the right companies in the right industries for you.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#63

Post by user5994461 »

adwww wrote: post #3
avitzurel wrote: post #2

Here's my perspective. (I am writing in a snarky way to convey a message) 1. If you're using recruiters, you're already losing. Especially if those are recruiting agencies that "hide" the name of the companies. The cold emails are just ridiculously hideous. 2. Use as little hyped up words as you possibly can. You might change the world, but everyone else is saying the same thing and people are getting sensitive about…

I've had conversations with recruiters where I've initially sounded interested, then changed my mind because it just sounds like too much hassle. They simply can't understand that I would give up when I realised there were three interviews, or that I needed to spend a day doing a test. Sure if I did well in one interview the other two would likely be fine too, but equally... I could just go to another company that sa…

I'm wary of companies that say yes after a quick conversation in a bar (That is, unless I've got friends there I've made companies with before and I come highly recommended). Maybe that makes sense for < 10 people companies who are just starting out and can't get any better.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#64

Post by flukus »

georgespencer wrote: post #24

I'm absolutely amazed that there isn't a single mention of referencing in here. It's by far the most important thing we do in our hiring cycle. Here's what we do, which is a little different: 1/ We'll spend in the order of 5-6 hours with a mid-to-senior hire before we recruit them. We pick one topic from their CV (the project they're proudest of or happiest with), and dive into it in huge detail: everything from the…

> 1/ We'll spend in the order of 5-6 hours with a mid-to-senior hire before we recruit them.

That's great if they're unemployed, but not so good if they have a job. Most employers won't do after hours interviews either. Is a currently employed person meant to call in sick?

It's absolutely terrible if you are one of a million generic companies that candidates aren't excited to work for.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#65

Post by user5994461 »

jiaweihli wrote: post #34
Clubber wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way. A full day interview is just silly, multiple day interviews, no way. Look at my resume, meet me, decide, make an offer. If it doesn't work out, fire me, but don't play this silly game of multiple interviews with multiple people that don't really talk to each other or coordinate. It makes the company look like they don't know what they are doing and/or are indecisive. You can keep that.

I strongly disagree with this. I've been on the other side of the fence, trying to hire people for an early-mid startup (5-40 people) as an early employee. There are more people than you'd expect who can talk the talk but can't code at the same level. In the majority of companies, I'd bet there aren't too many openings for engineers in such a narrow role. If you don't want to work with an 'idea person', would you wan…

As someone who's been at such a startup. The best tip I can give you is HackerRank.

Make a 1h test, NO fancy problems, just the basics. Think: summing some numbers, displaying some stuff on the console.

That doesn't substitute to the on site but it goes before to ensure a minimum level and some screening.

It's win-win for everyone. It's efficient and straightforward. On the top side, it's easier for the candidate to take 1h whenever he wants than to schedule a full phone call that will ruin half a day for both of you.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#66

Post by user5994461 »

ryandrake wrote: post #36
jiaweihli wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree with this. I've been on the other side of the fence, trying to hire people for an early-mid startup (5-40 people) as an early employee. There are more people than you'd expect who can talk the talk but can't code at the same level. In the majority of companies, I'd bet there aren't too many openings for engineers in such a narrow role. If you don't want to work with an 'idea person', would you wan…

Look at it from the candidate's point of view. Depending on what company I'm working for, I get 10, maybe 15 crappy days of paid time off that I have to split between vacation, sickness, and YOUR interview. If you take an entire day of my time, I can only do that max 10-15 times in the year, and that's if I don't get sick and have no vacation. I'm going to highly favor a company that does not make me blow one of thos…

You're kidding right? You americans only got 10, 15 days top per year? really?

I have a hard time taking seriously a company that doesn't give me 25 days in EU. (better be with 25 sick days :D).

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#67

Post by user5994461 »

Clubber wrote: post #37
ryandrake wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it from the candidate's point of view. Depending on what company I'm working for, I get 10, maybe 15 crappy days of paid time off that I have to split between vacation, sickness, and YOUR interview. If you take an entire day of my time, I can only do that max 10-15 times in the year, and that's if I don't get sick and have no vacation. I'm going to highly favor a company that does not make me blow one of thos…

I agree. If it's between two companies that pay "competitive rates," and one company wants me to interview for an hour and one company wants me to interview for a day, I'm not going to waste a day. If you were paying 2x rates or real equity, ya I'd slog through a day long interview, but I bet you aren't. What does your company have to offer that would compel me to spend 8 hours interviewing that another company doesn…

You need to charge more if you get two competitors for you.

Maybe they'll be only one company willing to pay then, maybe that will be the one with the one day interview :D

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#68

Post by user5994461 »

jiaweihli wrote: post #45
ryandrake wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it from the candidate's point of view. Depending on what company I'm working for, I get 10, maybe 15 crappy days of paid time off that I have to split between vacation, sickness, and YOUR interview. If you take an entire day of my time, I can only do that max 10-15 times in the year, and that's if I don't get sick and have no vacation. I'm going to highly favor a company that does not make me blow one of thos…

Yeah, I get that. There's not a good way to interview for many companies within only PTO. Something that's worked well for me in the past is to secure at least 1 good offer - compensation you feel comfortable with, recognizable brand, but still an offer you're willing to walk away from - and then give notice. Then, after leaving, spend additional time (up to 4 weeks) interviewing with all the other companies you want…

While I agree with the concept, I think it's dangerous.

There aren't that many good companies to work for in any area (even in SV), to have 10 on sites simultaneously, and you might burn bridges for later [e.g. don't reapply before 1-2 years policy].

IMO: If there is that much interest for you, you need to charge more.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#69

Post by user5994461 »

d3mchi wrote: post #25
Clubber wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way. A full day interview is just silly, multiple day interviews, no way. Look at my resume, meet me, decide, make an offer. If it doesn't work out, fire me, but don't play this silly game of multiple interviews with multiple people that don't really talk to each other or coordinate. It makes the company look like they don't know what they are doing and/or are indecisive. You can keep that.

I feel that a multi-day interview or a longer process helps weed out those who aren't interested in your company, just interested in a job, but I can agree some companies overdo it. As for meeting with multiple people who don't talk/coordinate, that sounds more like something that takes place in a larger company, whereas this article was about new startups, where I imagine communication would be stronger.

multi-day is TOO long. There is no exception to this rule.

It's not even about being attractive to juniors, seniors or mid level. It's just looking for desperate, even if you have a brand name.

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