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Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

darkpatterns.org

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Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#61

Post by Loic »

prdonahue wrote: post #50
cle wrote: post #27

One pattern that I consider "dark", but don't see in this list, is using loaded options on a dialog box. One that I often see in apps is like: Rate our app! Those really get under my skin because the developer is clearly trying to play a psychological trick on me, but it's so brazen and obvious that it just pisses me off. And bigger companies do it too (e.g. Google).

This. I hate this more than I can express in a public forum. Google is notorious for it, especially when they try to get you to use the YouTube app rather than the web interface. It's not "maybe later" I want—it's "never ask me again".

Google Maps on Android is massively using dark patterns. If you are on the go and open the app, it requests to enable the location service to continue. The choices are: "Enable location service" or "Cancel". It is phrased in a way that it will not run the app if you tap on "Cancel" but it works perfectly if you select "Cancel".

The worse, if you agree, it enables the location service for everything all the time where you have the feeling it was just for the Maps app.

I just discovered that 2 days ago and I must say I was really really angry at Google for this clear dark pattern use.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#63

Post by Theodores »

EvilTerran wrote: post #45
JadeNB wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experience seems to support , not refute, the idea that these are conscious decisions (albeit at a marketing, rather than coding, level, which I think is probably what the original meant) rather than inadvertent bugs.

I don't get the impression GP's disagreeing with the "not mistakes" bit, only the "carefully crafted with a solid understanding of human psychology" side of things - they're deliberate, yes, but more often than not they're clumsily-applied snake-oil, not the evil-genius stuff they're pitched as.

Thanks for that. Perhaps what I see in the anecdotal 'marketing clown' is a lack of human empathy, which is kind of the foundation stone for understanding 'human psychology'. Some people lack the wiring to care about others and see things from their point of view, whether it is the customer or the workmate. They also do not pick up on basic psychology, in my example there is little appreciation of how upsells work - there are facets and nuances to this that anyone who works in retail gets to grasp.

So it is a case of these people not knowing what they are doing, far from knowing the customer psychology and deliberately deceiving them, there is just no thought beyond doing some silly marketing campaign for the month end results.

What is also wrong with dark pattern is that the customers have to be churned - they will not be coming back after the customer service disaster that goes with the sale.

I don't care about quarterly results, I care about building a business that does not need marketing beyond word of mouth and white-hat SEO. So, in ten years time, customers will return for customer service provided to them, not to facilitate whatever silly offer is needed for my marketing clown's month end. I want customers to want to come back for a great product and great service, this is not compatible with 'dark patterns'.

We often give intellect where there is none. Notably in TV dramas where the 'killer' is supposed to be clever, in reality most people that commit crime really are not thinking at all, they have not thought it all through. 'Dark patterns' is a bit like that.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#64

Post by artursapek »

cle wrote: post #27

One pattern that I consider "dark", but don't see in this list, is using loaded options on a dialog box. One that I often see in apps is like: Rate our app! Those really get under my skin because the developer is clearly trying to play a psychological trick on me, but it's so brazen and obvious that it just pisses me off. And bigger companies do it too (e.g. Google).

There's a tumblr for that! They call it "confirm shaming".

http://confirmshaming.tumblr.com/

And yeah, it's UX cancer.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#65

Post by rhizome »

mvid wrote: post #30
cle wrote: post #27

One pattern that I consider "dark", but don't see in this list, is using loaded options on a dialog box. One that I often see in apps is like: Rate our app! Those really get under my skin because the developer is clearly trying to play a psychological trick on me, but it's so brazen and obvious that it just pisses me off. And bigger companies do it too (e.g. Google).

Tinder is the worst I have seen, they require you to pick between 1-5 stars to get the dialog to go away at all. Guess who always gets one star.

IIRC, you can hit the back button on that.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#66

Post by artursapek »

duiker101 wrote: post #36
monix wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other big players like Microsoft are doing it too. And that dialog can be worse: Do you like our app? It's also freaking annoying because it interrupts your workflow, the thing for which you ended up installing that stupid app in the first place. It's basically disrespectful of their users' time and needs.

I feel you... I do it in my app and I hate doing it, but it's a necessary evil. Way too many people see the comments/ratings as either a support board or a way of punishing bad apps but very rarely they give a good or even just decent review, without being asked.

It's not necessary at all.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#67

Post by chrisdone »

Buying tickets with RyanAir is stressful due to these kind of practices. They're less aggressive than in the past, when I wouldn't even continue because I just had zero trust in the company, but they're still sly.

A sneaky one I saw recently is something like:

[ ] Subscribe to newsletter about our services by unchecking this box.

(It doesn't matter whether the box is initially checked or not, the user will be tricked into the desired behavior.)

I don't remember the exact phrasing, and it was much more shrewd than my own, but it relied on a boolean flipping of the value of the checkbox towards the end of the field label. Any user seeding the start of the sentence will leave it in its current state.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#68

Post by flyinghamster »

monix wrote: post #34
cle wrote: post #27

One pattern that I consider "dark", but don't see in this list, is using loaded options on a dialog box. One that I often see in apps is like: Rate our app! Those really get under my skin because the developer is clearly trying to play a psychological trick on me, but it's so brazen and obvious that it just pisses me off. And bigger companies do it too (e.g. Google).

Other big players like Microsoft are doing it too. And that dialog can be worse: Do you like our app? It's also freaking annoying because it interrupts your workflow, the thing for which you ended up installing that stupid app in the first place. It's basically disrespectful of their users' time and needs.

See also: the Windows 10 "upgrade" fiasco. It's as if they took their ethics lessons from the bully in _Calvin and Hobbes_: "Yes means no and no means yes. Do you want me to hit you?"

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#69

Post by kps »

johansch wrote: post #56
ryandrake wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be ashamed of this practice if I worked for them. There's no shame because there are no consequences. "Oh, you were the guy at Company X that wrote that annoying Dark Pattern Y, huh? Can you walk me through the ethics of that?" - Said no interviewer ever.

I was just discussing this with a former co-worker. [Here in Europe.] Also: I'm pretty certain that if you had a history of using dark patterns.. that would be seen as basically fraudulent behavior here. Investors would stay far away. We both shared our distaste for a typical american way of accomplishing personal financial success - fake it til you make it, etc etc. Maybe this is a part of what sets SV apart from Eu…

cough Volkswagen cough

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#70

Post by tyleraldrich »

pipermerriam wrote: post #51
cs702 wrote: post #15

Great video and great website. My only nitpick: the author wants the industry to agree on a "code of ethics." Unfortunately, such exhortations strike me as naive. They are unlikely to work, because the truly bad actors will continue to use dark patterns regardless, putting pressure on all other actors to follow suit. The key challenge is not in getting the good actors to do the right thing, but in preventing the bad…

Blockchain based application platforms can allow re-architecting of applications such that the data that backs the application is not "owned" by the company, but instead is either public or user owned. Currently, if you want to use LinkedIn you have to either use their website. Sometimes there are 3rd party options that consume the API but in the current model of the web, as soon as one of those 3rd parties is seen a…

Sure, blockchain-based applications might have that ability... but what incentive do companies like LinkedIn have for doing this? What incentive does any company that uses these dark patterns constantly have to use a blockchain-based application? Especially because most of the time, the users data is the profit machine, so companies certainly want to own the data that backs the application.
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