Live data from Hacker News

Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

bloomberg.com

61–70 of 75 posts

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#61
post #8

I am beginning to think there is another housing bubble, but this time I am not exactly sure how it would play out if it burst assuming there is one forming. Would it affect the Chinese economy? The economy in each US city? The larger US economy? The global economy?

Google the Case-Shiller home index. Average prices in the US are as high as they were during the 2007 bubble.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#62
post #59
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You answered your own question - money (e.g. the second job) is how we measure productivity.

As far as I can tell, my property taxes do not change according to my productivity.

Well by those terms, the more tax you owe on a property the more productive either it and/or you have to be to maintain it - as the taxes increase, so do the incentives for you to put the property to work (as a rental), so that it helps to cover the cost of its own existence. It's similar to the incentives around NIT in Europe - if you have to pay money to the bank for them to store your Euros, you have more of an incentive to find productive capital investments instead.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#63

It's strange that there is so much push back against foreign investment. Rather than enact a bunch of projectionist policies, wouldn't it be better to just adapt to the investment in a way that benefits natives? After all, when foreign people want to buy something you have, that is called an export, and most people agree those are good for the economy. If foreigners are investing in housing, local governments will re…

The problem is that that comparison is misleading: while a Seattle 1BDR is 61% more expensive than a Tokyo one, it's also much bigger.

Note that the Buy comparison is by square meter, which is much more reasonable. Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre is -60% in Seattle i.e. Seattle_price = .4*Tokyo_price.

It's not like there's such a huge disparity in rent prices vs. buy prices in either city. The main reason that Rent for Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre comes out 61% more expensive in Seattle is that their average 1BDR is more than double the size of a Tokyo 1BDR.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#64
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just tax for vacant homes, regardless if foreign or not?

Because that would ultimately discourage new construction. If you're an investor and you want to invest in a house to hopefully rent out (not keep empty just-in-case for yourself), then you have to factor in the risk of not being able to rent out the property. Having a tax if you fail to rent the house only increases the risk of failing to rent, and thus, makes investing in real estate more risky. Pro-development pol…

The investment risk does not increase very much if the price is decreased accordingly.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#65
post #58
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should consider becoming citizens if they want to get the same treatment as citizens in the country. Most countries have significant limitations on what non-citizens can purchase, try buying land in China.

My favorite counterargument! Duly upvoted. I did try buying real estate in China. Just ended up giving money to my in-laws instead.

That counterargument kind of assumes you can become a citizen wherever you want. A lot of people can't, even if they could afford to buy a house.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#66
post #62
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, my property taxes do not change according to my productivity.

Well by those terms, the more tax you owe on a property the more productive either it and/or you have to be to maintain it - as the taxes increase, so do the incentives for you to put the property to work (as a rental), so that it helps to cover the cost of its own existence. It's similar to the incentives around NIT in Europe - if you have to pay money to the bank for them to store your Euros, you have more of an in…

So the more expensive a property I have, the more pressure should be put on on me to rent it out? If I own a hovel I get to keep it to myself but if it's George Clooney's villa on Lake Como or Zuck's house in Palo Alto society should lean on them to make these places "productive" by renting them out?

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#67
post #19

It's strange that there is so much push back against foreign investment. Rather than enact a bunch of projectionist policies, wouldn't it be better to just adapt to the investment in a way that benefits natives? After all, when foreign people want to buy something you have, that is called an export, and most people agree those are good for the economy. If foreigners are investing in housing, local governments will re…

It's funny that you think that they pay taxes. >An unusually high number of Vancouver homeowners living in multi-million dollar neighbourhoods but reporting poverty-level incomes is a red flag that needs immediate government action, says NDP MLA David Eby. >“The focus should be quite straightforward: are you paying your worldwide taxes inside British Columbia, or not?” Eby, who represents Vancouver-Point Grey, told r…

> It's funny that you think

Please don't be snarky on HN. "It's funny that you think X" can be shortened to "Not X".

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#68
post #66
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well by those terms, the more tax you owe on a property the more productive either it and/or you have to be to maintain it - as the taxes increase, so do the incentives for you to put the property to work (as a rental), so that it helps to cover the cost of its own existence. It's similar to the incentives around NIT in Europe - if you have to pay money to the bank for them to store your Euros, you have more of an in…

So the more expensive a property I have, the more pressure should be put on on me to rent it out? If I own a hovel I get to keep it to myself but if it's George Clooney's villa on Lake Como or Zuck's house in Palo Alto society should lean on them to make these places "productive" by renting them out?

Yes, I think there should be pressure to either use it yourself (if you decide your personal utility is worth the cost) or to rent it out. You can still leave it empty, of course, but people do respond to incentives; the more the maintenance costs, the more incentive they will have to either use it themselves, or rent it, or sell it. One of the major problems is that many of these properties currently sit empty as a store of wealth - like a safety deposit box - for overseas owners, which causes problems for the community.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#69
post #49
post #3

Well done, Vancouver city council! The housing market in Vancouver is totally bananas

Foriegn ownership is only a small part of why Vancouver real estate is so high. The last stats I saw said foriegn sales amounted to 10-15%. It's mostly Canadian citizens, coupled with low interest rates that are causing this bubble. I saw a stat that said 40% of condos purchased in Toronto (another crazy market) were bought by speculators. Foriegn sales are even lower (sub 10%) than in Vancouver. These laws focused o…

> It's mostly Canadian citizens, coupled with low interest rates that are causing this bubble.

If that's true, how do you explain that the median home price to household income ratio is roughly 12x?[1] Affordable is defined as 3x.

1 - For house price I used the 900k avg house price from the parent article. For median family income I used 76k from StatsCan's 2014 census. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/f...

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#70
post #25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you should have the ability to force other people how to use the house they paid for? Should I be able to tell you how to use your computer, phone, or car?

They should consider becoming citizens if they want to get the same treatment as citizens in the country. Most countries have significant limitations on what non-citizens can purchase, try buying land in China.

Try becoming a citizen of China. And even if you manage to on paper, try becoming a culturally accepted citizen of China. China is a terrible example of what it should be like.
Post reply on HN