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Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

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Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#61

Post by basch »

vectorpush wrote: post #29

Who cares? Reddit is a private company, they can set their own standards for moderation. For several years now I've seen this non-stop obsession with lambasting reddit as a shit-hole and a left-wing echo-chamber and a shit company run by amateurs and SJWs. Who cares? The overwhelming majority of redditors subsist on photos of animals and drawings of video game characters. Just leave if reddit isn't friendly to your p…

Reddit was founded upon values of free speech, at least that is what people were told at the time, even if it wasnt true in the back rooms.

I think the biggest concern is when platforms start to police illegal speech, and countries make political dissent illegal.

Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#62

Post by kuschku »

Shanea93 wrote: post #19
alexpersian wrote: post #6

throw r/the_donald in there with them

Yes! Lets silence the opinions of everyone we disagree with! Lets take away their places to talk so they have to skulk in the shadows! Lets pretend there's no merit to listening to the thoughts of millions of people! Why stop with removing their access to Reddit? Why not make it downright illegal to talk about it? Why don't we make it illegal to think about it, too? I'm exceptionally left-leaning and I don't agree wi…

> Why not make it downright illegal to talk about it?

To have any kind of discussion, you need to agree on a premise, a set of axioms, a base on which to talk.

In most countries, you take the constitution for that. Or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

That’s the minimal base on which you plan your society, and discuss politics and laws.

Usually, you add more, but it’s the required minimum.

What do you do with people who disagree with that? With people who disagree with the inalienable right to live? With people who disagree with the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" for some races or religious groups?

How can you form a society if you can’t even agree on the most basic ideas?

Maybe, you should actually separate society, split it, if there are people unwilling to make compromises, and holding immutable ideas that are incompatible with the rest of society.

Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#63

Post by Shanea93 »

fao_ wrote: post #28
Shanea93 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Lets silence the opinions of everyone we disagree with! Lets take away their places to talk so they have to skulk in the shadows! Lets pretend there's no merit to listening to the thoughts of millions of people! Why stop with removing their access to Reddit? Why not make it downright illegal to talk about it? Why don't we make it illegal to think about it, too? I'm exceptionally left-leaning and I don't agree wi…

See, the problem with all of this is that they get the 'left-wing' people to fight for them. These people have not lost anything but an outlet to abuse people, and spread their sexist, racist philosophies (If you disagree with this, try reading through Breitbart without being disgusted at the contents). Do not worry. These people still have their freedom of speech, they are free to spray paint swastikas in bathrooms…

But why should we not fight for them? I am just as angry about the thought of us being censored as I am of the thought of them being censored.

It doesn't matter whether what they say disgusts me or not, I don't have the right to not be offended. People often use Reddit to find news, I believe that Reddit should have a duty to provide that service in an unbiased way without inflicting their own views on the people who use their service. All they should care about it is "is this illegal?"

Yes, I understand that they're a company and not a government agency, it's of course just my opinion that they have such a duty.

Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#64

Post by rkangel »

vectorpush wrote: post #29

Who cares? Reddit is a private company, they can set their own standards for moderation. For several years now I've seen this non-stop obsession with lambasting reddit as a shit-hole and a left-wing echo-chamber and a shit company run by amateurs and SJWs. Who cares? The overwhelming majority of redditors subsist on photos of animals and drawings of video game characters. Just leave if reddit isn't friendly to your p…

Reddit has traditionally been a place where free speech is prized above all else. That they might 'censor' the alt right is symbolic. What it is symbolic of is in question though, pick one of:

1) The alt right has become so hateful that regardless of your approach to free speech that allowing it to propagate is unacceptable

2) Societies view of free speech has changed in the face of things like the alt right.

3) The expected role of sites like Reddit has changed as those platforms are used to spread hate speech, false news etc.

Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#65

Post by basch »

deadbunny wrote: post #20
jjawssd wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you disagree with their opinion does not mean you should want to kick them out. They are not acting upon their views in any way that affects you. Totally free expression is crucial and in no way will it affect you physically. I disagree with almost everything they stand for, but their presence is crucial for an open discussion of issues in our global societies.

And reddit has on multiple occasions refused people the right to "totally free expression". Freedom of speech is about the government not shutting you down for airing your views, not a company.

freedom of speech is a philosophy.

the first amendment is an application of that philosophy codified into law.

a company can by choose choose to value the philosophy of free speech, independent of the law.

you cannot use the phrases "freedom of speech" and "the first amendment" interchangeably.

Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#66

Post by d_e_solomon »

jjawssd wrote: post #8

If Reddit can not handle free speech, Voat will. Once Voat is overrun by the enemies of free expression, someone else will take the helm and continue. Such is the nature of a free Internet.

Yes, everyone leaves for Voat, Voat crashes, and then everyone goes back to Reddit. Most people go to Reddit for their cat memes, not to hate on people.

Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#67

Post by basch »

jjawssd wrote: post #57
laurent123456 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a free speech issue to be honest. As far as I can tell some of these sub-reddits, like the_donald in particular, are well organised and know how to push their posts to the front page (the rare time I open /r/all, their posts are almost always among the top ones, despite being very low quality content). So it's no about censoring free speech, it's about making the idiot shouting his opinions with a meg…

Spez has already weighted that subreddit so it rarely shows up on the front page. Why hasn't he outright deleted the subreddit?

/r/all is not the front page. t_d is not a front page default subreddit. people should not visit /r/all if they dislike seeing the firehose. or get gold and use filters and strengthen your filter bubble walls.

Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#68

Post by trentlord »

mordocai wrote: post #27
chrisrhoden wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is under no obligation to support, nurture, or pay for the resources required to keep this up. They are under no obligation to implicitly condone this content, as they have taken on an editorial role in the past and now anything they don't ban is in contrast to those things they have. As you pointed out, it's the web. There are many web hosts that will refuse you service for hosting pornography. That doesn't p…

Technically you are 100% correct. They are definitely within their rights, as are twitter and facebook. The problem is that we've got a de facto (as opposed to de jure) "censorship" system going on where people with undesired opinions are being forced (whether they wanted it or not) into echo chambers. "Censorship" just forces people underground to talk amongst other people with the same opinions. While it has some k…

Allowing them to stay might be fine if there was some type of goal of active education. If they have free reign without any restrictions, this would be like schools not reprimanding bullies, and letting them do as they please.

If we as a society decide that this behavior is not something we want to promote, then I do believe that "disrespecting" it is the best way to go about it.

Freakonomics had an interesting chapter where they wrote about comic books making fun of the KKK and how that really helped bring down membership.

Re: Reddit Gearing Up to Ban or Quarantine the Alt Right Subreddit

#69

Post by jjawssd »

d_e_solomon wrote: post #66
jjawssd wrote: post #8

If Reddit can not handle free speech, Voat will. Once Voat is overrun by the enemies of free expression, someone else will take the helm and continue. Such is the nature of a free Internet.

Yes, everyone leaves for Voat, Voat crashes, and then everyone goes back to Reddit. Most people go to Reddit for their cat memes, not to hate on people.

Correct. And those people which are easily offended should not stray outside of their cat meme subreddits. And all will be well.
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