MS Windows developers aren’t dependent on some third party cross-platform technology to adopt the latest iTunes APIs changes. Whereas, iPhone developers using third party cross-platform tools such as Adobe’s Flash will be at the mercy of Adobe and can only move as fast as it can. http://malnakari.tumblr.com/post/559162861/the-other-thought...
Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
61–70 of 119 posts
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#62I wish I knew why the concept of hypocrisy is so difficult to grasp that people are prone to apply it incorrectly. Maybe people just don't understand when someone is making a moral statement, and when someone isn't. The claim here appears to be that since Apple ships Windows apps that don't use that platform to its fullest, Jobs cannot claim that least-common-denominator middleware is unhealthy for a platform. That m…
I strongly disagree with the author, but I grasp his point of view. Let me try to explain it. There exists an ideology of "open is always better than closed": open source is better than closed source, open formats are better than proprietary formats, etc. When Jobs talks about WebKit/SquirrelFish being open source implementations of open standards, he is, intentionally or not, appealing to that audience. But obviousl…
Jobs implies something when he says that he thinks the web "should" be open. He doesn't say it's better for Apple if it's open. Anyway, what is the point? Shouldn't we all have our own self interest in mind and not Apple's? What do I care if it benefits Apple if it doesn't benefit me? The argument should be about whether we should accept what is happening lying down, or if we should try to resist it. Just because it makes sense for Apple to behave this way, doesn't mean that we should accept it.
Edit: It has nothing to do with morality. It's my own vested self interest that makes me wary of Apple. To bring up morality is a way of minimizing my views.
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it not hypocritical to hold others to higher standards than one demonstrates? I see a normative claim: Software systems should do X, Y, and Z Software systems that do not meet the norm are penalized or disallowed by Apple's platform(s). However, Apple's own software does not meet this norm either, even on Apple's own platform. It sure seems like hypocrisy to me, even if it is defensible.
Why bother inventing an abstract normative claim when you can quote the actual (and only) one that appears in the document: "...we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open." Now, proceed from there.
Why does Apple get to define the boundaries in this debate? What entitles them to demand that standards in the domain of competitor's products must be open whereas standards in their own business domain need not?
I agree that the web should be built on open standards but for exactly the same reasons that digital audio and video and mobile computing ecologies should also be open.
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#64What happened to OSNews? I remember it being a pretty good tech news site a while back but now it seems that every day there's another over-written, hyper-ventilating, peanut-gallery-baiting "opinion piece" like this. Good for selling ad impressions I guess.
I stopped reading it a few years ago when the frequency of Thom's rants got too much for me to handle. For example, he was in way over his head when he was trying to describe what his ideal OS of the future would be.
I miss the generally geeky articles on alternative operating systems, but ArsTechnica's open source coverage started to pick up about the time that I stopped reading OSNews that I had pretty much forgotten about it until today. Reading this article made me remember why I stopped going there.
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#65The only people I know defending Adobe and Flash are Flash developers and Adobe itself. Everybody else tolerates Flash begrudgingly. I miss a few flash games here and there on my iPhone. Beyond that, good riddance. Flash is the RealPlayer of the decade.
Defending Flash overall or for iPhone? I hate every Adobe product except Photoshop, yet I still am upset with Apple's decision on blocking other runtimes and forcing C.
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
iTunes sucks on windows because it does not take advantage of windows. If windows was the iPhone and iTunes was an app it would have been banned a long time ago.
Exactly. Replace "iTunes sucks on Windows" with "Flash suck on iPhone" and "Windows" with "iPhone SDK" and you're making his argument for him. Not that I agree with their policies, but this article's arguments aren't very good.
It's an incredibly simple claim. Apple is engaging in hypocritical policies. Apple forbids actions on its own platform that Apple uses to make money and gain market share on other platforms. I don't see how you can interpret this any other way.
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think he mostly argues about the fact that Jobs stated Flash not being and open standard as a reason not to support it. I hope we can all agree that Apple has never really been an open standards company and as the author points out, they've mostly stated this for marketing purposes while not fully embracing the idea.
I hope we can all agree that Apple has never really been an open standards company We cannot. I strongly disagree. At least in the web space there is a lot of innovation comming from or strongly supported by Apple.
... like Theora, and unlike H.264.
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#68I wish I knew why the concept of hypocrisy is so difficult to grasp that people are prone to apply it incorrectly. Maybe people just don't understand when someone is making a moral statement, and when someone isn't. The claim here appears to be that since Apple ships Windows apps that don't use that platform to its fullest, Jobs cannot claim that least-common-denominator middleware is unhealthy for a platform. That m…
The claim here appears to be that since Apple ships Windows apps that don't use that platform to its fullest, Jobs cannot claim that least-common-denominator middleware is unhealthy for a platform.
There were many good points in the article, and that's only one of them. Thoughts on the others, particularly the 'openness' of H.264 or lack thereof?
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#69I wish I knew why the concept of hypocrisy is so difficult to grasp that people are prone to apply it incorrectly. Maybe people just don't understand when someone is making a moral statement, and when someone isn't. The claim here appears to be that since Apple ships Windows apps that don't use that platform to its fullest, Jobs cannot claim that least-common-denominator middleware is unhealthy for a platform. That m…
The claim here appears to be that since Apple ships Windows apps that don't use that platform to its fullest And Mac apps. iTunes and Final Cut Pro are still 32-bit Carbon, with no indication of that changing anytime soon.
Maybe it's wrong of me to be pointing out votes, but it really irks me that the original comment is at 46 as of this writing, while yours is at 4.
So I want to comment in favor of stressing the above comments, hard. Considering a substantial discussion of the semantics of the word "hypocrisy" followed, with some people taking one side, and some the other, let's make a correction to the original presumption so that even those who didn't believe it to be hypocritical can come into agreement.
"The claim here appears to be that since Apple ships Windows apps that don't use that platform, Jobs cannot claim that least-common-denominator middleware is unhealthy for a platform." is false. The claim is that since Apple ships major OS X apps that don't use Cocoa, it's hypocrisy to attack Adobe on those grounds.
Edit: Actually Jobs's words chide Adobe as "the last major third party developer to fully adopt Mac OS X", so the debate might be a little bit more than moot. I still think it's entirely fair, though, to ask of Apple in the same vein, "Hey, why so late for you guys to fully adopt Mac OS X?"
Re: Jobs on Flash: Hypocrisy So Thick You Could Cut it with a Knife
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hope we can all agree that Apple has never really been an open standards company We cannot. I strongly disagree. At least in the web space there is a lot of innovation comming from or strongly supported by Apple.
Not claiming they have never done anything for the community but they have far more closed projects than open ones.
It's complicate. I believe each and every of their closed project depends a lot on a number of open ones—just take a look at Settings->About->Legal on iPhone or take a look at http://www.apple.com/opensource/.
On the other hand they do not contribute to all of OSS they use. But http://www.opensource.apple.com/ is still impressive.