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U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

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Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#61

Post by chime »

School-Cotton wrote: post #51
chime wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious why we treat student loan debt as being special. Because you can no longer declare bankruptcy to erase student debt. > If your degree of choice is unlikely to yield the kind of return that will pay for it, then you should be required to save up for it, rather than getting a loan, just like there are qualifications for other loans, like auto or mortgages which look at both the value of the asset vs its s…

It's true only the rich could send their kids to art school, but there are lots of things only the rich can do. What makes you define art school in particular as something we should pay for everyone to do, rather than a luxury? Keep in mind that resources are limited -- for a given level of taxation, everything the State spends money on means either cutting something else or increasing the debt (thereby making debt s…

> What makes you define art school in particular as something we should pay for everyone to do, rather than a luxury?

We're not outright paying for it. We're taking a risk on it. If we create a society that supports art and culture, then these degrees will result in good paying careers. If we create a society where 9/10 art students end up as baristas, then we're losing a slice of humanity in addition to the unpayable student debt.

We can get into a debate of whether one needs art school to have a career in art but that's not the point I was trying to make. If a university teaches 100 subjects, do we want to be a society that says only kids whose parents make over $250k can afford to be in these 10 specific majors?

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#62

Post by School-Cotton »

geomark wrote: post #39
Retric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can often just leave the country. US law makes it hard to discharge, non US law is another story.

Interesting idea. But that seems pretty tough unless the new grad has a much sought after skill and speaks the language in the destination country.

It's pretty easy for someone with an American university degree to get jobs in other countries -- the easiest is probably teaching English in Asia. It won't make you rich but it definitely pays enough to survive at what people in those countries would consider a decent middle-class standard.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#63

Post by School-Cotton »

shmerl wrote: post #7
meddlepal wrote: post #4

Anyone have any idea what the 20 to 50 year implications are for this? I imagine this will crush the economy eventually if millennials cannot pay it off.

Education can switch to a system that won't require any loans.

Can it? What's your plan for implementing this?

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#64

Post by School-Cotton »

andrewclunn wrote: post #3

Queue the political debate over whether this is a failure to provide secondary education to our citizens, or an artificial inflation in its cost by attempting to do so.

Nitpick, you probably mean post-secondary education.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#65

Post by charlieflowers »

This is so obviously a scam that I don't see how it can hold up. Tuition has gone to sky high levels, and who is getting that money?

Not the professors, let's get real. They have probably gotten sweet raises, but nowhere near the growth rate of tuition.

The armies of "administrators" are getting huge salaries, but the main point of the whole bubble is that it is a great way to proactively enslave a whole new generation before they even have a chance.

It's so obviously a "sold my soul to the company store" situation that I can't believe everyone doesn't see through it right away.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#66

Post by cosmie »

dublinben wrote: post #8
meddlepal wrote: post #4

Anyone have any idea what the 20 to 50 year implications are for this? I imagine this will crush the economy eventually if millennials cannot pay it off.

Regardless of how much debt there is, this isn't a bubble. These loans are nearly impossible to discharge. Recent graduates will be on the hook for this debt whether they want to be or not. The largest negative effect of all this debt will be the drag it puts on consumption. Young people are already delaying major purchases like cars and houses due to all their student debt.

They're extremely difficult to get discharged currently. That's purely a legislative protection. One that can be legislated away at any point if the political climate demands it.

Keep in mind major purchases such as cars and houses support the local economy and taxes. Student loan repayment doesn't. Once a large enough percentage of consumers are deferring those purchases that it starts to be felt locally, it becomes a lot more palatable to remove that safety net on student loans. Especially since the federal govt holds most of those loans, so fewer lobbyist dollars at work to protect it. And representatives will pretty consistently choose to screw over the federal budget before they'll take a hit locally. Especially as more and more representatives become personally affected by the issue and sympathetic to it.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#67

Post by nicksergeant »

charlieflowers wrote: post #65

This is so obviously a scam that I don't see how it can hold up. Tuition has gone to sky high levels, and who is getting that money? Not the professors, let's get real. They have probably gotten sweet raises, but nowhere near the growth rate of tuition. The armies of "administrators" are getting huge salaries, but the main point of the whole bubble is that it is a great way to proactively enslave a whole new generati…

They see through it. They just know they have no other option. Educators raise rates because they can, students pay the rates because they have to. It's the same problem we have in healthcare.

Until employers start scrutinizing education in terms other than "No degree? No thanks.", then we will continue to have this problem, in my opinion.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#68

Post by jerf »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #6

Every time I read articles about student loans in the USA, the options are always presented as either the current state, or free tuition. Why are interest free student loans never floated as an option? Here in New Zealand, our student loans are provided by the government and are interest free as long as we reside in New Zealand. It means that people who don't do tertiary education, or who do a trade, don't subsidise…

We could also make college a lot cheaper. Maybe split things back out into "college" and "university" more clearly, and let more people do something other than ship out to a four (or more) year boarding school to have someone more or less through classes that are more or less someone holding your hand through reading a text book that you may neither want nor need to read.

(Yes, the exceptions immediately leap to your mind, I'm sure. But I went to University too, and I remember that I just described an awful lot of courses, even as I too remember the exceptions.)

Universities are valuable, yes, but they acquired that reputation in a time where we weren't shoving everyone through them. It is completely unclear to me that 19th century attitudes about the values of Universities are appropriate to our 21st century reality. If you take a hard-headed business-type look at a university and look at the product it is producing vs. the overhead it requires to produce that cost, not to mention the opportunity cost being foisted off on the students, it's not hard to think that we could pare this down a bit for the vast bulk of students, with the result that they still get the vast majority of benefits and either not having any debt, or having an order of magnitude less of it. Leave those who still need the full experience to it, don't make everyone pay for it.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#69

Post by joshkpeterson »

devoply wrote: post #45
VickBear wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By automation you mean in many, many years, right?

Automation will start causing job loss by the millions in 5 years. So no I mean it's a problem creeping up very quickly. Initially it will be less qualified workers, but the fact is that many university grads, say art majors, end up in less qualified jobs (if they exist).

Careful, there's an art major who does software development for a living replying to your comment right at this moment :)

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#70

Post by munin »

charlieflowers wrote: post #65

This is so obviously a scam that I don't see how it can hold up. Tuition has gone to sky high levels, and who is getting that money? Not the professors, let's get real. They have probably gotten sweet raises, but nowhere near the growth rate of tuition. The armies of "administrators" are getting huge salaries, but the main point of the whole bubble is that it is a great way to proactively enslave a whole new generati…

equal parts administrator and the state, since as I understand it the tuition hikes track funding cuts at the government level for higher ed. that is the real killer.

so, do the taxpayers see the money as reduced sales and property tax?

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