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Time to Dump Time Zones

nytimes.com

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Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#61

Post by minznerjosh »

darawk wrote: post #17

Hmm...this is an interesting idea. However, the core of the argument seems to be this: > “The economy — that’s all of us — would receive a permanent ‘harmonization dividend’ ”— the efficiency benefits that come from a unified time zone. But this editorial is pretty light on actually supporting that. The basic argument seems to be that it reduces 'translation costs'. But..does it? What about the benefits of being able…

This hits the nail on the head. Abandoning time zones would only make sense if there were no more need for time translation. But you'd still need to translate for the sake of biological clocks, and without time zones it would become more challenging to communicate that translation.

I would be in favor of doing away with DST and also eschewing AM/PM in favor of a 24-hour clock. I'm surprised this article didn't mention that.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#62

Post by a_plastic_bag »

mjevans wrote: post #30
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding UTC: when I've tried (as a European) to coordinate online meetings with Americans (working in tech companies) using times given in UTC, it's gone wrong about 50% of the time. Usually caused by people confusing UTC and British Summer Time (UTC+1).

Sadly, that's because they think UTC == GMT (which does have DST). UTC would be the time that computer software operates in and then feeds humans 'human time'. You also can't use 'Zulu' from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_time_zones either, for that same confusion. The problem, like with driving, is that humans are communicating the time to humans, instead of the 'smartest' humans having programmed co…

GMT doesn't change throughout the year. Birtain uses GMT during winter and BST(UTC+1) during summer though.

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/gmt-utc-time.html

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#63

Post by cyberferret »

Living in a place that doesn't have the concept of daylight saving time, I positively hate the dance that we have to do twice a year with our interstate and overseas brethren to arrange meetings etc.

Having been a commercial pilot, I also appreciate the concept of 'Zulu time' where EVERYONE is on the same page as to when an aircraft will depart or reach a particular waypoint. No need to wonder if it is during morning, noon or evening, if a crew member said they would be at a particular location at 0421, we all knew how many minutes ahead or behind we were, no matter where we are in the world. After all, everyone who cares about that reference is already awake and working at that time.

Currently, I work with a widely distributed remote team across the world. Yes, arranging meetings is hard in order to ensure that it fits with working schedules and awake times, but at the end of the day, I usually also clarify the meeting times in UTC times, just to ensure that everyone can double check in their local timezones.

This means using only one fixed datum for checking rather than figuring out if the remote timezone & daylight saving, and trying to work back to your local timezone accordingly. For instance, I am in Australia and you are in the US, you have to figure out the subset timezone each is in before working out. I have no idea what zone Kalamazoo is in off the top of my head, and I bet you have no clue what timezone Darwin is in?!?

In our web apps, we always set our servers to the default UTC timezone, and try and use humanised time displays all over the app (i.e. "Updated 34 minutes ago") or use local browser timezones to display actual time. This way, it doesn't matter if someone in the Ukraine or in Alaska enters a record, it is always "x minutes from a fixed datum" no matter what your local time is, and it seems to make more sense to the users.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#65

Post by derefr »

edblarney wrote: post #19

The article is upside down. "Perhaps you’re asking why the Greenwich meridian gets to define earth time. " It doesn't. Everybody gets to have their own, proper time. In comparing times, we +/- based on an arbitrary spot, and that's it. Time zones are a great solution to a problem. People want their time in local terms. Everyone waking up and going to bed at different times is an utterly ridiculous concept. FYI - if y…

> Everyone waking up and going to bed at different times is an utterly ridiculous concept.

For most of us who don't travel or communicate internationally much, sure. But for government ambassadors, military officers, and business executives? A single agreed-upon "Earth time" (even just between such people) would really help to keep track of how many hours they have until their next international flight or conference call. I could see things like stock markets and Network Operations Centres also requiring all communications be specified relative to "Earth time."

Of course, what I'm talking about here isn't so much a clock to keep track of waking/sleeping hours; it's a way of keeping track of successive twenty-four-hour periods of monotonic time, that continue to tick at the same rate regardless of where you happen to be on Earth. It makes sense, I think—if you are a person with a "globe-trotting" profession—to care more about monotonic time than local time.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#66

Post by jlgaddis »

gwbas1c wrote: post #41

Ok, pretty much every comment here is about why time zones are important. I agree! But one thing to ponder: Just like telling time in 24-hour mode is useful, perhaps it will be useful to have some clocks display UTC? Perhaps it'll be useful to talk about international events in UTC? Perhaps instead of abolishing time zones, we just use UTC as a convention when talking about events that happen across time zones?

For over 20 years, I've kept a clock near my computer desk that shows time in both my local time zone as well as UTC.

I started doing it because I was pretty active in ham radio. I'm not now (and haven't been for many, many years) but I still use UTC several times a week. It's very handy when dealing with people/events/servers/etc. in different/multiple time zones. (Then again, I use 24 hour time everywhere so maybe I'm just weird.)

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#68

Post by raldi »

pixie_ wrote: post #45
pfarnsworth wrote: post #29

Getting rid of Daylight Savings makes complete sense, and it's something we should really pursue. Getting rid of Time Zones is ridiculous. People know that 6am roughly is morning, and 6pm is roughly the evening. When you're dealing with someone internationally, you know not to call them at midnight their time because there's a high probability they may be sleeping. Having time roughly follow a standard around the wor…

We need permanent daylight savings time. Yesterday sunset was around 6pm in LA. Today it will be at 5pm. At least I had a little bit of daylight after work, now it's just depressing.

Without Standard Time, it would have been dark out until 7:40am today here in SF. That's really tough on people (or children) who have to be at work/school by 9 or even 8. By mid-December, sunrise wouldn't be until almost 8:30. In Seattle, it would be dark outside until 9am.

Losing an hour of sleep in the spring is rough, but I'd rather do that (and get an extra hour in the fall) than have to get ready in the dark all winter.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#70

Post by grzm »

derefr wrote: post #65
edblarney wrote: post #19

The article is upside down. "Perhaps you’re asking why the Greenwich meridian gets to define earth time. " It doesn't. Everybody gets to have their own, proper time. In comparing times, we +/- based on an arbitrary spot, and that's it. Time zones are a great solution to a problem. People want their time in local terms. Everyone waking up and going to bed at different times is an utterly ridiculous concept. FYI - if y…

> Everyone waking up and going to bed at different times is an utterly ridiculous concept. For most of us who don't travel or communicate internationally much, sure. But for government ambassadors, military officers, and business executives? A single agreed-upon "Earth time" (even just between such people) would really help to keep track of how many hours they have until their next international flight or conference…

A single agreed-upon Earth time already exists. UTC. It's used successfully in many domains, including those you list.
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