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Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

blog.kapeli.com

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Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#61

Post by st3v3r »

spacehunt wrote: post #24
joeberon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What actually happened: 1. Guy publishes good paid app and gets a tonne of good reviews 2. He helps out a relative by buying an apple developer account for them, giving them a machine to test with 3. Relative also uses same "com.kapeli.*" bundle ID 4. Relative decides to buy 1000 fraudulent reviews 5. Apple tells the relative to stop posting fraud reviews, who refuses 6. Apple terminates both developers accounts sinc…

> 3. Relative also uses same "com.kapeli.*" bundle ID Just saying: anyone can freely create any App ID they want. I just successfully created "com.google.android.nougat" as a test.

I'm fairly sure you don't have the same user and CC on file as they do.

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#62

Post by djrogers »

gshulegaard wrote: post #40
edko wrote: post #22

This whole thing has taught me a lesson. I initially sided with the weaker side because I own a copy of Dash, and it is great software, and because one tends to side with the underdog. After listening to the recording of the conversation, my feeling is that Apple is handling this in a very fair and professional way, and that I was too quick to take sides. I think it is not unreasonable to assume that: same credit car…

I generally agree with you but wanted to point out that: > same credit card + same hardware = same developer is fine as a pseudo-identifier for fraud detection...but I don't think is actually an identifier. It's kind of like someone knowing my social security number and birthday but not actually being me. IMO, Apple should have immediately reinstated the account once contacted about a potential edge case rather than…

> I generally agree with you but wanted to point out that: > same credit card + same hardware = same developer is fine as a pseudo-identifier for fraud detection...but I don't think is actually an identifier. It's kind of like someone knowing my social security number and birthday but not actually being me.

No, actually it's not. Someone knowing your SSN is completely different form someone having possession of your hardware. Even if the story were different and the CC# had been stolen, iOS hardware identifiers are cryptographically validated on development devices. You can't just go around 'stealing' device IDs without having possession of said devices - ergo it's about as solid an identifier as one can get.

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#63

Post by spacehunt »

st3v3r wrote: post #61
spacehunt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. Relative also uses same "com.kapeli.*" bundle ID Just saying: anyone can freely create any App ID they want. I just successfully created "com.google.android.nougat" as a test.

I'm fairly sure you don't have the same user and CC on file as they do.

But it proves bundle IDs can only be treated as circumstantial evidence at most.

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#64

Post by forgottenpass »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #32

I was rooting for him really, because I myself am also at times very frustrated with how Apple treats developers. But I've lost trust in this guy after reading his blog posts and especially the phone call he published. The only reason I can think of why the phone call took over 7 minutes is because he wanted to record it and publish it. Really. If you summarize the phone call. It's basically Apple asking him to publi…

If I--or any normal person--was in the same situation

If you define "normal" as "milquetoast and with an Americentric perspective," then maybe.

Americans are much more submissive when bureaucratic process presents a roadblock. Especially a roadblock that seems on the face more reasonable with an American view of sharing bank accounts and old hardware.

Americans' desire for justice and fairness are paraded around. But their sense of justice is beaten out of them until they have Dwight Schrute-esque compliance "That is the law, according to the rules."

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#65

Post by spacehunt »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #52
TheCowboy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a fact that had he written a blog post admitting guilt that his account would have been reinstated. That's just a carrot dangled by Apple, without a hard contractual obligation to follow through. If anything, actually writing that something wrong happened would make it easier for them to justify their decision. It could be a trick representatives sometimes use when they assume the party they are dealing with…

Okay, then you release your recorded call AFTER they defect (I'm not saying he shouldn't have covered his ass by recording the call, that's the smart thing I would've also done). Imagine how bad that would look for Apple. If I had to guess, Phil & co. wouldn't want to risk that nuclear scenario (and they are definitely smart enough to know better).

> Okay, then you release your recorded call AFTER they defect

Isn't this essentially what happened (at least according to Kapeli)? He wrote the blog post, sent Apple a draft, then Apple went to the press.

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#66

Post by eridius »

forgottenpass wrote: post #64
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #32

I was rooting for him really, because I myself am also at times very frustrated with how Apple treats developers. But I've lost trust in this guy after reading his blog posts and especially the phone call he published. The only reason I can think of why the phone call took over 7 minutes is because he wanted to record it and publish it. Really. If you summarize the phone call. It's basically Apple asking him to publi…

If I--or any normal person--was in the same situation If you define "normal" as "milquetoast and with an Americentric perspective," then maybe. Americans are much more submissive when bureaucratic process presents a roadblock. Especially a roadblock that seems on the face more reasonable with an American view of sharing bank accounts and old hardware. Americans' desire for justice and fairness are paraded around. But…

Saying "I understand why you linked these accounts and that my relative committed fraud" is not the same thing as being submissive and rolling over, and your portrayal of Americans is rather offensive.

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#67

Post by eridius »

barney54 wrote: post #43
DannyBee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"(illegal on one side of that conversation at least)." This is actually not correct, it depends on the state/country he is in.

Also, you don't know if there was consent before the recording started.

There probably wasn't, because people typically capture that sort of thing in the recording (otherwise you don't have any proof of the consent). Based on how it started, it sounds to me like he answered the phone, and when he realized who he was talking with he started recording (without asking for permission).

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#68

Post by eridius »

ap3 wrote: post #47
bnycum wrote: post #17

There feels like no right side in this story. * Apple terminated both accounts because of fraudulent activity, but only one account was contacted to let them know of this activity. * Kapeli shared financial information and test devices with this other account, whether it was a relative or not. * Apple said "Hey, write a post telling the whole story and all will be cleared. Just don't say we were at fault." * Kapeli a…

>Apple said "Hey, write a post telling the whole story and all will be cleared. Just don't say we were at fault." Why should Apple tell devs what to publish on their blogs? That does seem like blackmail: say you are sorry and we will let you back in.

Why do people keep saying that Apple's completely voluntary gesture of goodwill (there's no reason at all why Apple has to offer this) is blackmail? If that's blackmail, then every transaction ever is blackmail. "Oh, you want to buy that eggbeater? That's $10" "blackmail!"

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#69

Post by eridius »

TheCowboy wrote: post #49
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And given that nugget of actual evidence, I can decisively say that he definitely screwed himself over. This is how the business world works. Sometimes you can't get the best deal, but it's still in your best interest to accept it regardless. You have to act rationally; you can't just defect (to borrow some game theory parlance -- this literally resembles Prisoner's Dilemma) in the name of "principles." One moderatel…

It's not a fact that had he written a blog post admitting guilt that his account would have been reinstated. That's just a carrot dangled by Apple, without a hard contractual obligation to follow through. If anything, actually writing that something wrong happened would make it easier for them to justify their decision. It could be a trick representatives sometimes use when they assume the party they are dealing with…

That's nonsense. Even if Apple was trying to trick him (which they definitely were not), his blog post didn't have to admit any wrongdoing. Nothing he needed to say in there would have been admitting to fraud. It merely would have admitted that his account was linked to one with fraud (which nobody is disputing) and that he's working with Apple to unlink it and restore his account.

Re: Dear Dash Users – A message to all Dash users from the Kapeli Blog

#70

Post by st3v3r »

spacehunt wrote: post #63
st3v3r wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly sure you don't have the same user and CC on file as they do.

But it proves bundle IDs can only be treated as circumstantial evidence at most.

So you combine that with the same CC number on file, and the same development machines, and now you have a very good chance the same person is responsible.
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