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MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

bbc.com

61–70 of 98 posts

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#61
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly politicized stories aren't a good fit for HN to begin with, but if anyone can suggest an accurate, neutral title, we can change it.

the title of the link on bbc front page is better imo "MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'".

OK we'll use that for now.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#62
To cut to the chase, the study confirms what was fairly obvious: - Yes, a Russian missile shot down a commercial aircraft. - Yes, Ukrainian separatists (Russian supported) controlled the area.

So what's the outcome? Putin could care less and doesn't answer to any authority that can apply restraint or collect damages. So what does this change?

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#63
post #40

News like this has nothing to do with startups or the tech scene. Or am I missing something here?

HN guidelines list appropriate content as ~ "anything of interest to hackers".

If you think this article detracts from the site rather than enrich it, use the "flag" option.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On July 14th 2014, just three days before the MH17 incident, an Antonov AN-26 Ukrainian military transport plane was hit at 21 000 feet altitude, so there was a strong indication that SAMs were available to the seperatists. According to the Dutch Safety Board, the airspace should have been closed [1]. [1] http://www.airspacemag.com/daily-planet/dutch-safety-board-u...

AN-26 was hit with a MANPADS which cannot target altitude at which civilian airliners fly. No one at the time thought that Russia was crazy enough to supply the rebels with BUKs.

While the previous aircraft were downed by MANPADS or AA, the AN-26 in question was flying at an altitude only reachable by a SAM. At the bottom of this article [1] is a good overview of the shot-down aircraft over east Ukraine in 2014.

[1] http://airheadsfly.com/2014/07/15/ukraine-latest-an-26-downi...

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#65
The official website of the "Openbaar Ministerie" (Dutch Public Prosecution Service) contains a press release, including some animations and intercepted calls [1] as well as a page with documents from the presentation [2].

[1] https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-crash/@96068/jit-flight-m...

[2] https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-vliegramp/presentaties/pr...

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#66

I just don't understand how can pilot be so reckless to fly over known warzone? Hey I'm not saying it's their own fault, but please stop telling me that it's "safe" because it's not. It was a known warzone. Todays example: Virgin Atlantic, Air France and Emirates will no longer allow its planes to fly over Iraq due to concerns about the dangers posed by Islamic militants.

Everything is a calculated risk. Your question is equivalent to asking a crashed driver how they could have been so reckless to drive that day.

In hindsight, we tend to fall into the trap that the actual outcome was the correct/fated outcome. That we should have predicted it and known better.

A weather forecast that posted a 5% chance of rain on a sunny day is not wrong. No matter if it rains or is sunny, the probability was still just 5%, but we often assume that if the forecast was "correct" it should be 0% or 100%. That's not how it works. A coin toss is always 50%, even after the fact.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#67
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to ruin Russia to the point they become North Korea and cannot afford the upkeep for it's military. Regular people? Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe if they get off their asses and stop the Putin's insanity...but who are we kidding? People there dream of good old soviet imperium

Ruining russian military? You mean rusting tanks from the 60's or expired rockets from cold war era? The military can not compete with the west anymore. People there stopped dreaming in the 90's when the ugly side of "new Russia" showed its face. As i said election process is rigged, many folks there want change. please, do not believe 75%+ public support ratings spewed out by state propaganda machines. they are simp…

I've actually been to Russia, through Petersburg, all the way to Solovetsky island, spent around a month there. I'd say that sure, people are nice on a personal level, but some topics were off limits because it would end badly. While i know that the russian military has issues with equipment that is literally falling apart, let's not kid ourselves the west doesn't have similar issues. ICBM's don't need any contemporary electronics to be perfectly deadly. And let's not forget that Russia right now is actively developing modern weapon systems perfectly capable of taking on anything the west has to offer, some of them are slated to be markedly better (For e.g. PAK FA, if they actually manage to produce it in meaningful numbers, makes the F-coat-hanger-abortion-35 completely irrelevant) And air power is disproportionally effective in conventional war. So, my point is - if Russia literally goes bankrupt, it can no longer afford precision tools, asic chips, expertise, modern milling machines, exotic materials, etc. This is not cold war, where you could literally hand solder computers. (Yes, I know no one put's 22nm chips in 5th gen planes, but the point still stands)

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#68
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to ruin Russia to the point they become North Korea and cannot afford the upkeep for it's military. Regular people? Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe if they get off their asses and stop the Putin's insanity...but who are we kidding? People there dream of good old soviet imperium

Ruining russian military? You mean rusting tanks from the 60's or expired rockets from cold war era? The military can not compete with the west anymore. People there stopped dreaming in the 90's when the ugly side of "new Russia" showed its face. As i said election process is rigged, many folks there want change. please, do not believe 75%+ public support ratings spewed out by state propaganda machines. they are simp…

>Ruining russian military? You mean rusting tanks from the 60's or expired rockets from cold war era? The military can not compete with the west anymore.

It's still strong enough to grab Crimea, support the rebels in Eastern Ukraine, and intervene very effectively to rescue the regime in Syria. I for one would be very glad if its military finally collapsed.

On a deeper level, the Russian people have never figured out how to organize themselves into a modern, democratic nation, and they love authoritarian rulers like Putin. I mean, look what happened when they had some freedom under Yeltsin, they blew it completely.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#69
post #7

It is me or title looks very ambiguous? It sounds that missile was launched from Russian grounds. What a scary way to begin a morning.

No, because it's never been a point of contention that the missile was fired from within (some part of) Ukrainian territory. What people have been generating noise about is the question of whether the missile came from Russia (before being launched) or from Ukraine's own stockpiles (being as Ukraine did have missiles of a similar make and description, apparently).
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