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Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

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Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#61
post #13

Telling someone to smile feels closer to trying to cheer them up than any harassment.

How often are you told to smile?

How do [would] you react to someone telling you what emotion to feel, much less to outwardly convey, regardless of what's actually going on inside you?

It's offensive and inexcusable, regardless of gender or intent.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#62

> theoretical foundations of design patterns There are theoretical foundations of design patterns?

Well, yes, of course there are. A design pattern you just pulled out of your ass wouldn't make for much of a pattern.

So, that form of expression I just used, I'm just wondering if that one is still allowed? It seems pretty colloquial, but these things do change over time.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#63
Absolute BS. She sent an email to the entire company about this "incident", which I'll include here (names redacted).

> 8:53:41 AM Person1: so am I the only one who thinks of the Bed Intruder auto-tune song everytime Person2 warns us of undisclosed persons in the building?

> 8:54:47 AM Person3: hide yo wife?

> 8:54:57 AM Person1: and yo kids

> 8:56:02 AM Person3: well, you're not any more

> 8:56:13 AM Person1: #winning

> 9:02:13 AM Person5: hilarious. Now the song is stuck in my head!

> 9:08:08 AM Person4: -_-

> 9:09:43 AM Person4: No

> 9:11:10 AM Person4: Could do without having songs referencing sexual assault mentioned.

> 9:12:04 AM Person1: fair enough

> 9:13:39 AM Person4: Especially joking about it. -_-

> 9:18:25 AM Person4: Does not exactly endear me to working during the day when the first thing I see is someone joking about rape in work chat.

> 9:18:46 AM Person1: my appologies

> 9:33:18 AM Person4: It's completely unacceptable, and creates a very toxic atmosphere.

> 9:36:45 AM Person1: obviously that wasn't my intention. it won't happen again.

> 9:37:24 AM Person4: Compounded by the fact I am the only woman in the [org], and I have several guys joking about it as well, in work chat.

> 9:37:32 AM Person4: It would be unacceptable even if that weren't the case.

And then claims to still not feel safe coming back to work after taking a month off due to PTSD from the above incident.

There is undoubtedly sexism in the tech industry, and we should all strive towards eliminating it. This, however, is stirring up drama in response to a joke made in poor taste.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#64
post #48

The time that I worked at Apple was brutally hard work. If we're talking about work environment, I think many people reading that article have no concept of how difficult a job it is, how high are the expectations, and how many hours the average engineer is putting in there. This is a very difficult job which can be extremely stressful for a long duration of time. As a society we tend to laud grueling hard work rathe…

> None of what I read in TFA I really understand to be a hostile work environment, as the term is defined. Your colleagues joke that someone is coming to rape you, and you're supposed to laugh? I'm not a woman, but I can imagine a woman being really hurt by such a joke. Given the fact that 1 out of 6 women in this country are victims of sexual assault[1], I think it's a joke in poor taste, and does not belong in a wo…

I'm a little upset that you took the first paragraph of TFA and mangled it into "Your colleagues joke that someone is coming to rape you."

  On a Tuesday morning in July, when men on her team began to
  joke that an office intruder was coming to rape everybody,
  Danielle decided to speak out about what she described as the
  "very toxic atmosphere" created by jokes about violent sexual
  assault.
So 'Danielle' overheard a tense joke about an office intruder. After raising a complaint, the person who made the joke apologized profusely.

I'm not laughing, but again I'm really not shocked and would not expect a response to this incident beyond the apology already offered.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#65
post #58
post #48

The time that I worked at Apple was brutally hard work. If we're talking about work environment, I think many people reading that article have no concept of how difficult a job it is, how high are the expectations, and how many hours the average engineer is putting in there. This is a very difficult job which can be extremely stressful for a long duration of time. As a society we tend to laud grueling hard work rathe…

Not to diminish any of the other claims but I found this one to be a bit of an eye roller - Describing another incident, she wrote, "I was walking back to my cube from the break room and passed a group of managers exiting a meeting. The Area Manager told me to smile as I walked past." "While this is a small thing, it was notable as this is one of the most commonly reported forms of subtle sexism." No matter how hard…

Would you ever say that to a male colleague? Would anyone?

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#66
post #58
post #48

The time that I worked at Apple was brutally hard work. If we're talking about work environment, I think many people reading that article have no concept of how difficult a job it is, how high are the expectations, and how many hours the average engineer is putting in there. This is a very difficult job which can be extremely stressful for a long duration of time. As a society we tend to laud grueling hard work rathe…

Not to diminish any of the other claims but I found this one to be a bit of an eye roller - Describing another incident, she wrote, "I was walking back to my cube from the break room and passed a group of managers exiting a meeting. The Area Manager told me to smile as I walked past." "While this is a small thing, it was notable as this is one of the most commonly reported forms of subtle sexism." No matter how hard…

Because it's generally a double standard, in that the same thing is not expected of men. It goes along with the 'women need to look attractive in the workplace' thing.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#67
post #61
post #13

Telling someone to smile feels closer to trying to cheer them up than any harassment.

How often are you told to smile? How do [would] you react to someone telling you what emotion to feel, much less to outwardly convey, regardless of what's actually going on inside you? It's offensive and inexcusable, regardless of gender or intent.

> It's offensive and inexcusable, regardless of gender or intent.

How? It's a common everyday saying.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#68
post #13

Telling someone to smile feels closer to trying to cheer them up than any harassment.

Even if you are friendly with the person giving the comment, it strikes me as a very self-centered thing to say.

It translates into: "I don't like seeing your face unhappy."

To which I (or anyone) might reply: "Well, I'm having a shit day and you're not helping. So... tough!"

It would be more appropriate to say nothing if you don't know the person or don't have time to ask if anything is the matter.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#70
post #48

The time that I worked at Apple was brutally hard work. If we're talking about work environment, I think many people reading that article have no concept of how difficult a job it is, how high are the expectations, and how many hours the average engineer is putting in there. This is a very difficult job which can be extremely stressful for a long duration of time. As a society we tend to laud grueling hard work rathe…

> None of what I read in TFA I really understand to be a hostile work environment, as the term is defined. Your colleagues joke that someone is coming to rape you, and you're supposed to laugh? I'm not a woman, but I can imagine a woman being really hurt by such a joke. Given the fact that 1 out of 6 women in this country are victims of sexual assault[1], I think it's a joke in poor taste, and does not belong in a wo…

someone coming to rape everybody.... she wasn't singled out. Still, rape jokes are not acceptable.
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