Live data from Hacker News

Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

techcrunch.com

61–70 of 116 posts

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#61
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying that he's done that drive without touching the wheel. It will work in other places, but he emphasizes that you still have to pay attention, as with autopilot. He gives the full talk here: https://techcrunch.com/video/george-geohot-hotz-presents-the... Yes, he's a punk and seemingly on drugs, but surprisingly, Hotz is not a bullshitter as far as I can tell.

> Yes, he's a punk and seemingly on drugs What makes you say this?

Even the moderator in this video asks him "Whatever you are on, I want some" :P

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#62
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mentioned the car has to have built in radar already.

My understanding is that this will only work with late-model Honda/Acura with LKAS & ACC packages, they hack into these systems for control. http://automobiles.honda.com/sensing/

OK so reading that, those new cars actually have most if not all of the self driving autopilot type features built in, very similar to Tesla (but not anywhere near Googles level). So I am guessing this device mainly just engages those built-in systems a little more frequently than they were designed? I mean what does the product actually do, or is it just basically Honda didn't want to market it as self driving yet but this guy decided he would?

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#63
post #32

Hotz is a proven, remarkable engineer. But if there was ever a case for a "business guy" to be involved with a pitch this was it. His messaging works at some level - "I'm shipping something REAL and SMALL and ACHIEVABLE" But his pitch has two huge problems: (a) The delivery is rough. He comes across as patronizing and manic. I want to put my life in his hands? (b) He fumbles (like Musk has) with the difference betwee…

> Hotz is a proven, remarkable engineer. Wait, Hotz, that name... is this Geohot? ... Turns out, it is! [1] That makes this statement a lot more believable to me. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz

Both the video and the article is littered with "Geohot", FYI.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#64
Some thoughts in no particular order, edited from an IRC discussion I just had on this:

The price is extremely low. If you drive just 20 minutes per day, and your time is worth at least minimum wage, it makes sense to buy this for just a year, and hopefully it lasts longer than that. But there is a monthly subscription cost ($300 per year) i didn't factor in. And wtf, since when does hardware have a subscription cost? Oh, and to purchase one you need to have lots of "points" with the company, which you can earn by using their app. This is really weird, why not just raise the price if you can't meet demand?

The price also doesn't seem high enough to cover the risk. If each accident costs 10 million in lawsuits (i have no idea how much they will actually cost, but that seems like a good made up number, and corporate legal fees are expensive anyway) then they better have less than 1 accident per 10,000 vehicles that use it, just to break even. honestly i hope they have 0 accidents because they could bring in regulators and ruin the fun for everyone, as well as the very delicate reputation of self driving cars (people are already predisposed to distrust machines)

I can't believe this works at all. Wouldn't you need like multiple gpus to process all this camera data in real time? How do you account for the variance between vehicles? How many cameras do they have and what is the resolution? That unit looks really small.

It looks like it's just trained by predicting what a human would do. Human drivers are imperfect, and so I imagine this machine will learn to imitate the imperfections of human drivers, combined with it's own imperfections. It's also unclear how they trained it, because the dash cam videos don't give information on when users tapped the brakes or moved the steering wheel. They must be doing some interesting semi-supervised learning.

Apparently the cars have limits on how hard it can slam on the brakes or turn the wheel. He advertises this as a good thing that will prevent the AI from doing anything too bad, but I don't see how. This limits what the AI can do in a real emergency. Worse, it suggests that the AI needs these training wheels. That without them it would cause accidents, and that's very concerning.

I just can't believe that this works. Deep learning is completely amazing and can get 99% accuracy, but this requires 99.9999%. Those extra 9's are super super hard. Fortunately this doesn't need to be perfect, it only needs to be better than humans. And while deep learning is starting to beat humans in some machine vision tasks, I'm not confident this is true in general. In the real world there will be weird edge cases, like a car painted in a very atypical pattern, or ice on the road, or a bug on the windshield, etc. Humans are more capable of handling new, out of sample situations, and machines can fail epically at them.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#65

This may be insensitive but is the name too close to "coma" given the odds that one of their users will end up in one (through the product's fault or not)?

Wow! Slow down there, Satan. I can already see the headlines.

Really now, Satan? That's all I had to do to get the top job in hell? Do I get to be the second coming for holding elevator doors when I'm in a rush?

I was just questioning the wisdom of passing out the free headline tragedy-puns with your branding. It would be an equally terribly name for a line of DIY transcranial direct current stimulation kits. Again, it's not because these products are dangerous[0], but that they will likely be perceived that way. Any possible blame will be laid at their feet at least through innuendo, so why make it easy and catchy?

[0] I make no assertion about the actual safety of either.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#66
post #19

> The $999 price point is designed to be affordable, and is possible because of the components Comma uses in its product, which tend to be inexpensive off-the-shelf electronics. "Inexpensive off-the-shelf electronics" aren't rated for automotive environmental conditions, nor do they have the immunity to interference (e.g., single event upsets) required for safety-critical systems.

Off-the-shelf in the context of electronics means that they didn't custom design some parts of it (for example using a SoC module rather than custom DDR layout), not that the parts are consumer rated.

Which SoC is it? Jetson?

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#67

Mountain View to San Francisco Is this product actually just limited to driving 280 / 101? If so, that's a really interesting way to launch a minimum viable product in the self-driving space: Obviously you can't launch with anything incomplete in terms of safety, but you can launch with a highly restricted supported geography.

I think he just used that as an example of what types of journeys can be driven.

What mostly bothers me about this is his disregard to whether someone dies or not using the product. But hey, as long as they're shipping this year, under $1000, that's all that matters right?

I've read their paper and it's solid ML research, he's got a few good guys on the team. And I don't really disagree about MobilEye. But there are so many other DL/RL product spaces they could have picked without risking people's lives - it kind of seems he is on a mission to prove Musk and some other companies wrong, no matter what the risks to users. I sincerely hope no one dies as a result of using this.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#69

Wow, its incredible how many people bash this startup here, incredible to see it from this community here. I mean what they have done to you? It's not like they gonna sell tickets to Hell or scam someone, so what's the big deal with more entrepreneurship in the town?? Be nice to your fellow entrepreneurship -- you might end up working for them one day.

You may think differently when someone you know or care about is killed by an AI controlled vehicle. Apparent reckless use of technology frightens people, regardless of the actual risk.

I'm not saying their solution is perfect. Nothing is. But will I send a hate mail to utensil factory because I cut myself with their kitchen knife? No, I won't.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#70
post #2

The company’s Autopilot system is in active use, and in fact just got an update this past weekend that should vastly improve its performance and decrease the possibility that the car doesn’t brake when it should. I am not gonna lie - that does not give me a lot of confidence in this system. "Oh, and by the way, it sometimes doesn't brake when it should." That quickly equals injury or even death with a car. You do not…

Lots of people everyday don't brake when they should.
Post reply on HN