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Why I’m dropping Rust

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Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#61

Post by eternalban »

MaulingMonkey wrote: post #21
lossolo wrote: post #14

I think it would be fair if you also would disclose that you are working in Mozilla and that you are directly connected to Rust when defending it on HN.

Sounds like overkill to me? Would a comment in a profile be sufficient? (Disclaimer: I'm working on a web based brainfuck ide/compiler/optimizer for my own amusement, and thus probably have some kind of dog in some kind of fight here?)

I think an affliation heads-up is required if you are pissing on a competitor's product. And in such cases, HN does effective policing.

It is also possibly helpful if the commenter is elaborating on product that they are involved in to establish that their input is authoritative.

And not to give cause for inflated heads here :) but seriously, if you are seriously interested in this space, you sh/would already know the cast of mvps and thus major contributors such as Russ Cox or Patrick Walton (et al) would not require introductions.

Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#62

Post by loup-vaillant »

mcguire wrote: post #54
loup-vaillant wrote: post #33

So, you want class based polymorphism, and you want trees of objects with back references. Sounds like Qt to me. I have the feeling the author tried to translate his knowledge of OOP languages to Rust. Bad idea. Try F# first. Seriously: my current favourite language is Ocaml, and it would have basically the same problems. But I don't care, because I don't think like that. I have other ways to solve my problems.

Ocaml has a GC and supports class based inheritance, right?

> Ocaml has a GC

Yes, but the language is immutable and eager by default. That makes circular references a chore.

> and supports class based inheritance

Yes, but hardly anybody uses that part of the language. We tend to stick with modules and variations over them.

Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#63

Post by steveklabnik »

arbre wrote: post #60

I have been feeling that way ever since two years ago when I first looked at the language. I still don't understand why this language has such popularity. It's really bad for the reasons mentioned. C++ is a solid language where you can do everything you want and also write memory safe code in a clean way with unique_ptr. C++ is not perfect but to me no alternative come close yet, rust and go comprised.

C++ is not memory safe, and neither is uniq_ptr. Use after move on one causes a segfault. (Actually IIRC it's UB, but it usually manifests as a segfault)

Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#64

Post by mookid11 »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #62
mcguire wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ocaml has a GC and supports class based inheritance, right?

> Ocaml has a GC Yes, but the language is immutable and eager by default. That makes circular references a chore. > and supports class based inheritance Yes, but hardly anybody uses that part of the language. We tend to stick with modules and variations over them.

> Yes, but hardly anybody uses that part of the language. We tend to stick with modules and variations over them.

You can have inheritance via polymorphic variants: see Garrigue's `Code reuse through polymorphic variants`.

Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#65

Post by iopq »

chias wrote: post #19
ekidd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, petgraph uses vectors and indices to avoid unsafe code, and it's the most popular graph library on crates.io. Nice! I hadn't seen that yet, but it looks really interesting: http://bluss.github.io/petgraph/doc/petgraph/graph/struct.Gr...

Not sure if it's just me, but the ampersands at that link are displaying super weirdly on my end: https://i.imgur.com/Bg8rejM.png

It means you have an older version of source code pro, the Rust website uses your local font instead of an invalid font name like some websites do.

Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#66

Post by iopq »

MaulingMonkey wrote: post #25
chias wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if it's just me, but the ampersands at that link are displaying super weirdly on my end: https://i.imgur.com/Bg8rejM.png

Happens here too (on Chrome 52-53.) I guess it isn't some locally corrupted font, eh? Edit: Doesn't occur on IE 11, so it seems Chrome specific.

It's a locally corrupted copy of Source Code Pro. When I installed a new version it was resolved.

Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#67

Post by woodman »

lossolo wrote: post #14

I think it would be fair if you also would disclose that you are working in Mozilla and that you are directly connected to Rust when defending it on HN.

It sounds like you'd like a signal that allows one to more quickly switch off their brain, like network television prefixing party affiliation to politician's names. "Oh it is a R talking? Well as a D I can assume that everything said is wrong, no need to evaluate individual points."

Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#68

Post by lossolo »

paulddraper wrote: post #16
lossolo wrote: post #14

I think it would be fair if you also would disclose that you are working in Mozilla and that you are directly connected to Rust when defending it on HN.

While disclaimers are common (for some reason), it has no effect on the virtue of his points. It's just fluff.

I have different opinion on that matter. Sure, some of his points are valid, I even agree with some of them but not all and not always. That's why disclaimers exist, for that reason. Especially when there are cases of glorifying your own product and bashing others.

Please read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias

Re: Why I’m dropping Rust

#70

Post by Etzos »

lossolo wrote: post #39
mercurial wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It would be fair if he was trying to push a product, but here it's just a technical discussion.

I am not claiming that he is pushing the product, just that his opinion can be biased, but then how would you want to push clearly technical product like Rust without technical discussion?

I think a point you haven't considered when talking about bias is bias going the other direction. That is, if he were to mark his, technically oriented mind you, posts with information that he works on Rust it's possible that it will instill a bias among readers. Regardless of his association with Rust as a project he knows technical details and that's what's important in posts like this regardless of potential bias.
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