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Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

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Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#61

Post by tigershark »

lhl wrote: post #38
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, actually, the one thing the blockchain provides, which was literally unsolved before pre-Nakamoto, was a working implementation of "trustless" consensus. That's the part banks do not care about so I think it's largely irrelevant in the context of this article.

I spoke at length w/ a friend working on mortgage-backed securities for GS a few years ago and dealing with third-party (and even intra-office) trust was specifically why he was looking into blockchains, but I'll admit to not being super familiar w/ R3's blockchain implementation. If anyone has a less diatribey and more technical resource they could link to that'd be great.

It will never work in that use case. And I was hoping that the recent ethereum fork after the Dao debacle made it clear for everyone..

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#62

Post by petra »

jcoffland wrote: post #51
wmf wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legit branch is signed/vouched by at least (N/2)+1 parties and the cheating branch has less than (N/2)-1.

So groups of banks get to vote on what is true or not. How could that ever fail. /s

If that is viewed as a failure-mode before deployment, they can add servers at neutral bodies like courts, etc.

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#63

Post by Avalaxy »

We keep seeing a lot of examples of how Machine Learning can really innovate and reinvent all sorts of processes (i.e. the vegetable sorting we saw on HN yesterday), but when it comes to blockchains, it seems that it's mostly talk about how it could potentially change everything, but so far I haven't seen many very useful examples that couldn't have been done without using a blockchain (the whole blockchain thing often seems to be used just for the coolness factor).

Can anyone provide some ideas of how I, as a solo entrepreneur, could improve software by using a blockchain? I get how it might provide tremendous values for bigcorps, but I'm not part of that audience.

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#64

Post by gbarc888 »

jhallenworld wrote: post #48

The example clarifies my feeling about blockchain: How would the example provided (avoiding the clearing house) work without the banks accepting something like a mining-backed crypto-currency like bitcoin? With bitcoins, there is no possibility for dispute: bank A gives bank B the money during the transfer. Any other scheme involves a promise (a legal contract), so you will not know for sure that bank A really had th…

In scenario (4), they're bank-backed crypto-currencies. Banks are trying to build their own settlement coins: http://www.coindesk.com/utilities-settlement-all-about-banks...

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#65

Post by gbarc888 »

Avalaxy wrote: post #63

We keep seeing a lot of examples of how Machine Learning can really innovate and reinvent all sorts of processes (i.e. the vegetable sorting we saw on HN yesterday), but when it comes to blockchains, it seems that it's mostly talk about how it could potentially change everything, but so far I haven't seen many very useful examples that couldn't have been done without using a blockchain (the whole blockchain thing oft…

This is a good flowchart that tells you if you need a blockchain: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn1YcTwVMAAvzac.png

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#66

Post by buzzdenver »

hinkley wrote: post #45
JoshTriplett wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems reasonable even on a massive chain. Some people do need to keep the whole archived part of the chain, and anyone who wants to verify it can do so, while day-to-day transactions can just compress that part of the chain down to a hash. You'd need to keep enough of the chain live for all "live" transactions; that would likely have a time bound (days, perhaps). People who run a "full" client that verifies the co…

This is probably a gap in my knowledge, but I hope this isn't a terribly obvious question. So let's say I buy a bunch of bitcoins and I just sit on them. A year or two from now, they're worth a bunch of money, so I use them or sell them. How does everyone with the truncated blockchain know that the bitcoins I'm using aren't being double-spent?

The truncated blockchain would contain at least the latest amounts for any wallets. Truncation loses the old transactions, but cannot exclude any wallets that have any BC in them.

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#67

Post by heliumcraft »

Avalaxy wrote: post #63

We keep seeing a lot of examples of how Machine Learning can really innovate and reinvent all sorts of processes (i.e. the vegetable sorting we saw on HN yesterday), but when it comes to blockchains, it seems that it's mostly talk about how it could potentially change everything, but so far I haven't seen many very useful examples that couldn't have been done without using a blockchain (the whole blockchain thing oft…

http://dapps.ethercasts.com/

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#68

Post by to3m »

tigershark wrote: post #61
lhl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spoke at length w/ a friend working on mortgage-backed securities for GS a few years ago and dealing with third-party (and even intra-office) trust was specifically why he was looking into blockchains, but I'll admit to not being super familiar w/ R3's blockchain implementation. If anyone has a less diatribey and more technical resource they could link to that'd be great.

It will never work in that use case. And I was hoping that the recent ethereum fork after the Dao debacle made it clear for everyone..

They will probably not be using the public Ethereum blockchain, so the fork won't be relevant.

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#69

Post by zby »

lhl wrote: post #3

I'm all for deflating blockchain hype, but I found the overall tone of the article pretty disagreeable, and more importantly, wholly missing the point. "In other words, the only thing previously stopping the standardization of reconciliation processes was the unwillingness of financial institutions to collaborate." No, actually, the one thing the blockchain provides, which was literally unsolved before pre-Nakamoto,…

The trustlesness comes with a heavy price of Proof of Work with its wastefulness, complexity and vulnerability to various attacks. I can understand why financial institutions don't want that part.

Re: Maybe Blockchain Really Does Have Magical Powers

#70

Post by wmf »

brians wrote: post #57
coderzach wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the part banks do not care about so I think it's largely irrelevant in the context of this article. I have no idea where you got that idea, but it's not true. Which is why any deal that happens between institutions (and sometimes intra-institution) has an army of middle men who are responsible for verifying, monitoring, reporting, etc etc.

But you still need them in a Blockchain world, and still need to trust them.

Or you could convince some other banks to vouch for your transactions if you vouch for theirs and then get rid of the middlemen.
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