Born to Rest • Hacker News Board

Re: Born to Rest

#61

Post by helloworld » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:06 PM UTC

Harvard "needs to reopen a discussion about…a physical-education requirement."

It's been said that "love is a better master than duty," and requiring college students to take a physical education course sounds like a duty.

If you want people to exercise without coercion for the rest of their lives, I think you have to tap into intrinsic motivation, i.e., the unique things that get you excited. Depending on your personality and life experience, that might be novelty, socializing, recognition, or competition.

Forcing college students to exercise will backfire, leading many of them to stop as soon as the course is over.

Re: Born to Rest

#62

Post by Jtsummers » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:08 PM UTC

sotojuan wrote: post #58

Jtsummers wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple specific individuals I've known. Both ran 15-20 miles a day. They'd just go for runs most evenings or mornings and run and run. At least every weekday for one, the other I know ran daily. One was a Catholic seminarian (ran in the mornings, no family, obviously). The other was a middle-aged, family man, working as an engineer. He'd run most of his life. Both were African, one Nigerian (the seminarian), I don'…

I guess the confusing part was that you said "most". Unless you only know a few skinny people.

Ah, that "or they run 20 miles a day." was an aside at the end. The first part was what I typically see of healthy, skinny people, the second part of very few (substitute other sorts of crazy levels of physical activity for the running if you want).

Re: Born to Rest

#63

Post by ryuker16 » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:08 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #38

Jtsummers wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking specifically of college, I'm unfamiliar with current K-12 requirements in the US. Physical education is no longer required at most universities. Not even one or two semesters. It is offered . But so is going outside for a jog, or dropping to the floor and doing push-ups and sit-ups. The issue is one of motivation. If students (really, people) aren't feeling motivated to be active then they won't. Attaching a…

Considering that gym class was hell on Earth for some of us fat people and we greatly looked forward to the liberation of college, I think the idea of mandatory PE is horrible. PE is usually taught in a manner that's great if you're already fit, and atrocious if you're fat. It's hard on the joints and exemplifies how much weaker/slower/less valuable to society you are compared to the fit kids. I know this because I W…

some schools let you pick which type....mine had dance to weight lifting and maybe swimming.

Re: Born to Rest

#64

Post by Jtsummers » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:11 PM UTC

helloworld wrote: post #61

Harvard "needs to reopen a discussion about…a physical-education requirement." It's been said that "love is a better master than duty," and requiring college students to take a physical education course sounds like a duty. If you want people to exercise without coercion for the rest of their lives, I think you have to tap into intrinsic motivation, i.e., the unique things that get you excited. Depending on your perso…

This isn't military boot camp level of exercise. Most universities (in the US) already offer a wide variety of fitness courses, so students have plenty of options to find something they like or want to explore. Add a requirement to take 1-3 of these courses during the undergrad period, and/or some method of exempting it (by being a collegiate athlete, or demonstrating a level of fitness on 1-3 occasions like an annual fitness test).

Re: Born to Rest

#65

Post by nxc18 » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:29 PM UTC

helloworld wrote: post #61

Harvard "needs to reopen a discussion about…a physical-education requirement." It's been said that "love is a better master than duty," and requiring college students to take a physical education course sounds like a duty. If you want people to exercise without coercion for the rest of their lives, I think you have to tap into intrinsic motivation, i.e., the unique things that get you excited. Depending on your perso…

A good option here is to have a variety of wellness courses on offer.

E.g. some students want to get healthy. I'm in a 120 challenge course right now. I know I never would have taken it without the coercion, but now I'm glad I'm forced to do it.

Other students will want sports (tennis, soccer, etc. are options) while others want to pretend they're not just exercising (ninja training, humans vs zombies, Nerf gun battles, etc).

As the article points out, there is an innate laziness in most people. My natural tendency is laziness. Even the fit, athletic, body building people I talk to report really struggling to keep their motivation.

Even people who like exercise often have to force themselves to do it. As long as there are palatable options, the coercion here isn't going to make people any more likely to not exercise later in life because humans are already really bad at that. Ideally the coercion would help remind students of the value of exercise building lifelong habit. If that doesn't work out, at least they'll have exercised at all in their adult life.

Re: Born to Rest

#66

Post by nxc18 » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:29 PM UTC

helloworld wrote: post #61

Harvard "needs to reopen a discussion about…a physical-education requirement." It's been said that "love is a better master than duty," and requiring college students to take a physical education course sounds like a duty. If you want people to exercise without coercion for the rest of their lives, I think you have to tap into intrinsic motivation, i.e., the unique things that get you excited. Depending on your perso…

A good option here is to have a variety of wellness courses on offer.

E.g. some students want to get healthy. I'm in a 120 challenge course right now. I know I never would have taken it without the coercion, but now I'm glad I'm forced to do it.

Other students will want sports (tennis, soccer, etc. are options) while others want to pretend they're not just exercising (ninja training, humans vs zombies, Nerf gun battles, etc).

As the article points out, there is an innate laziness in most people. My natural tendency is laziness. Even the fit, athletic, body building people I talk to report really struggling to keep their motivation.

Even people who like exercise often have to force themselves to do it. As long as there are palatable options, the coercion here isn't going to make people any more likely to not exercise later in life because humans are already really bad at that. Ideally the coercion would help remind students of the value of exercise building lifelong habit. If that doesn't work out, at least they'll have exercised at all in their adult life.

Re: Born to Rest

#67

Post by Fifer82 » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:29 PM UTC

Let me die in peace. For some reason, it is always assumed that everyone wants to live as long as possible. If you don't have a cola each day, you can dribble into a towel for another 3 years when you are older.... No thanks, Ill take the coke. put it on the reapers tab.

Re: Born to Rest

#68

Post by justinator » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:30 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #35

justinator wrote: post #23

Is there actually any evidence that ancient hunter gatherer groups didn't do what we now call "exercise" on a voluntary basis? Some ideas come to mind: dancing, walkabouts, spirit quests, right of passage rituals, ?ancient forms of martial arts? I am compelled to believe that early man did things merely to do them, including exercise.

None of those things you mentioned are exercise. They are physical activity yes, but productive (including mentally productive) physical activity. Exercise is physical activity without being productive at all.

But that's false. While exercising, we socialize, we can explore our immediate surroundings as well as provide a useful function, like getting to work. Are you saying my commute by bike isn't exercise? Do you think dancing isn't now seen as a form of exercise?

Re: Born to Rest

#69

Post by justinator » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:32 PM UTC

kornish wrote: post #39

justinator wrote: post #23

Is there actually any evidence that ancient hunter gatherer groups didn't do what we now call "exercise" on a voluntary basis? Some ideas come to mind: dancing, walkabouts, spirit quests, right of passage rituals, ?ancient forms of martial arts? I am compelled to believe that early man did things merely to do them, including exercise.

Interestingly, all of those activities you list seem to have an underlying purpose beyond merely "fitness for the sake of fitness" - exercise (and the fitness which follows) are incidental side-effects of completing those activites. Not sure what you mean by "actual" evidence, but we know a lot of what we know from studies of modern-day hunter gatherer groups and it seems unlikely that the ancients would have signifi…

Modern day hunter gatherers do not "play"?

Re: Born to Rest

#70

Post by cpr » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

helloworld wrote: post #61

Harvard "needs to reopen a discussion about…a physical-education requirement." It's been said that "love is a better master than duty," and requiring college students to take a physical education course sounds like a duty. If you want people to exercise without coercion for the rest of their lives, I think you have to tap into intrinsic motivation, i.e., the unique things that get you excited. Depending on your perso…

Well, at least Harvard has the swimming competence requirement to graduate, installed as a condition of the Widener Library family bequest (since their son Harry Widener died on the Titanic).

At least they did in 1976. ;-) I wonder if they still do?