They don't want students to have any spaces where they feel safe/accepted? That's weird.
No, they just don't want to pander to the entitled kids with victim complexes who think they shouldn't have to hear anything they disagree with.
University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
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Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#62This seems like a good way to define what makes the school different. If you like this, go there. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere that does have trigger warnings and safe spaces.
Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's just not an equivalent analogy. Explosions sound and light are somewhat recreating a war time experience. The classroom equivalent for trigger warnings would be telling veterans that a discussion of a war in history class was coming.
I think you're looking for a depth of equivalence that I wasn't suggesting was there. To further muddy things, you should know that explosions themselves don't produce the responses they do just in veterans. High-bandwidth sounds trigger an autonomic response as soon as they hit the brain stem- long before the cortex has a chance to think "I recognize that as an explosion", the brain stem said "HOLY SHIT SOMETHING IS…
So in what classroom circumstances would a warning be necessary?
I'm all for being courteous, I just have serious concerns about giving college students the impression that the world around them needs to adjust to them rather than vice versa.
Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Mention of rape" and "discussion of rape in enough detail to cause discomfort" are not the same thing.
I'm sure we can find someone who is uncomfortable at the mere mention of the word. Not that we should necessarily accommodate such extremes, but how do you decide where to draw the line?
If we try to have a culture that considers trigger warnings a courtesy worth extending, rather than having a policy saying yes/no, then the question of where the line should be drawn can be answered by each instructor as they see fit.
It's likely that a few obviously triggering things can be labelled as such and good can be derived from that even if we can't or shouldn't label everything.
Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#65The "so called" part of the announcement feels like it's meant to be particularly patronizing. "You rassafrassin youngsters, with your so-called rap music and trigger warnings!"
It is meant to be a nod to the intellectual bankruptcy of the entire concept of safe spaces and trigger warnings. Taken to their logical conclusion, these policies would lead to a gutting of the entire premise of a liberal education, which is what the University of Chicago has always sought to provide (source: proud alumnus, particularly today). You simply cannot protect people from ideas they disagree with while also fostering vigorous intellectual debate and growth.
Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#66What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this. It's really hard to actually create a safe space. You have to actively intervene to prevent (or provide redress for) the "wrong" kinds of speech. I can totally see why a university would not think safe spaces were worth it, or even consistent with their goals. But trigger warnings are a rea…
> If you think this is a consideration worth extending to a veteran, it seems perfectly consistent that you'd want survivors of rape or abuse to know that a discussion of rape or abuse was coming up. And at what point does it stop? Who decides what is a trigger warning? If someone is afraid of wolves. Must I now stop wearing my wolf shirts? When does it simply turn into censorship and shutting down topics and discuss…
I don't think people generally include every possible phobia on the list. It quickly gets out of hand if you try to take into consideration everything beforehand, no matter how rare it is. What about people with acousticophobia, chromophobia, genuphobia, hyelophobia, or pogonophobia? No sound or music, no colors, no visible knees (dress code! no skirts), no windows or glass cups, and no beards!
But if you know someone with xanthophobia, maybe don't wear a yellow shirt to their dinner party?
I have an issue with safe spaces and trigger warnings. They aren't usually thought of being helpful by many, if not most, professionals. If anything, they are considered actively harmful for the "triggered" individual and increase depression.
They're a feel-good measure so people can believe they are being considerate of others and announce it to the world. "Look how thoughtful and considerate of others I am being!" While letting them deride anyone who claims otherwise as being an asshole.
Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#67Am I missing something, or doesn't safe space just = Library / Dorm room ? Maybe add some headphones so you can't hear anything....
No. People arguing for "safe spaces" are generally arguing that the entire university should be a "safe space". So it's really about control over shared space and the right to police offensive dialog.
Never heard of that concept of "safe space" before. Do you have any examples of it?
Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#68Bad move, Chicago. If the kids don't learn how to use trigger warnings and safe spaces at school, how will they know how to use all of the trigger warnings and safe spaces in the real modern world after they graduate?
Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#69This is tough . With the aspirations of "civility and mutual respect" along with "rigorous debate, discussion, and even disagreement", I would hope any truly egregious edge cases disappear. In the middle, I think people have the right to remove themselves from discussions—civil or otherwise—that they don't want to listen to or engage. But that right doesn't limit others' ability to have those selfsame discussions in…
Universities ought to return to what they once were: free and open exchange of ideas.
Viewed in this light, the University of Chicago's rejection of political correctness is actually a softening of extremism: allowing for, rather than actively silencing, diverse political discourse.
This is in stark contrast to neighbor Chicago school DePaul, who last month blocked[0] Jewish conservative minority voice Ben Shapiro from speaking.
The extreme position here is blocking and preventing free speech and ideas through safe spaces and trigger warnings. Dismantling these, as the U of C has done, is worth celebrating. I hope they are the first of many.
Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’
#70What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this. It's really hard to actually create a safe space. You have to actively intervene to prevent (or provide redress for) the "wrong" kinds of speech. I can totally see why a university would not think safe spaces were worth it, or even consistent with their goals. But trigger warnings are a rea…
With regard to veterans and fireworks, I think that would actually be an example of a "safe space", in that the vets in question are demanding that neighbors not celebrate America's independence within a given radius of their homes. They're not asking for a heads-up before people shoot off roman candles...they're saying, don't do it near my house, period. FWIW, I don't think this is a consideration worth extending to…
> With that said I do think that a professor giving a heads-up to students that they're going to discuss uncomfortable topics (e.g., rape) in class is probably the right thing to do, within reason (e.g., if it's going to be the central theme of that day's discussion).
I'd disagree with that. If it's central to the lecture, it should be essential/relevant to the course. If it's not, there's no reason to bring it up in the first place.
The concept of a trigger wasn't created as something to be avoided. Identifying a trigger is the first step in identifying and dealing with the underlying psychological issue. It's similar with safe spaces. They are things that people need post-trauma to help recovery. It's not meant to be a permanent need or something that should be broadened to the world at large.
Your therapist creates a safe space for you to discuss your triggers.