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I renounced my US citizenship

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Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#61

Post by jorkro »

researcher7 wrote: post #59

You complain about the US legal system, which based on the constitution protects everyone with due process rights, and like countries like the Netherlands which have no bill of rights? Me and my family spent our life savings, endured the horrors of leaving everything behind to come to the US to enjoy the liberty and rights that are guaranteed to everyone, yet people like you are not happy and want lower standards. Go…

Uhm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Netherland...

Although I agree with you that this does not seem like a good reason to renounce your US citizenship over, it is pointing out some issues with the US tax code that need fixing.

Your response doesn't address that and reads more like an ad hominem attack.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#62

Post by parsnipsumthing »

Millions of Americans every year don't pay taxes or file any tax returns. I would recommend that instead.

If you are a not particularly wealthy individual and you don't owe any back taxes to the IRS, the consequences of not any filing taxes are likely to be nothing.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#63

Post by british_india »

dalke wrote: post #60
british_india wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the State Department is supposed to maintain a worldwide set of consulates--with no charge to you--just so they can swoop in at your time of need and give you services that you then pay for. Do you think all those State Department resources just come out of pixie dust when you need them? Duh, no. We pay things called taxes to keep that worldwide network of consulates existing and available if you need them. No, l…

Your anger is uncalled for. There's a trivial solution. As leoedin points out at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11071749#up_11072396 : > The UK embeds the cost of consular protection and embassy services into the renewal cost of a passport - approximately £15 in 2010, probably more now. It's an insurance payment that most people will never use, so it doesn't need to cost very much per person. I would gladly pay…

It's amusing that you attempt to marginalize well-reasoned opinions you don't share by labeling their holder as having "anger".

Finally, do you think it costs $30 to maintain a consulate? Just stop your whining: either renounce or pay your taxes.

Finally, in a civilized society, when you encounter laws you don't like--you work to get them changed. Otherwise you're just a childish scofflaw--no different than the bank robber who complains about the laws against robbing banks. "emigrants like me can have a backup plan"--not sure if you meant this as a joke, as it entirely undercuts all your arguments. If you want a backup plan--you gotta pay for it. You could have just as well gone to Somalia as Sweden--so the unlikelihood of war there is not germane to the conversation.

Whiner.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#64

Post by british_india »

gozur88 wrote: post #54
british_india wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you're experiencing some cognitive dissonance. You can't understand how it could actually be fair for you to have to pay for the services that remain available to you as a holder of a United States passport. Funny, you're claiming that the US is such a hellhole--well some parts of it are but still, why oh why are so many people from around the world clamoring to get to the United States? Because its infrastruct…

>I see you're experiencing some cognitive dissonance. I see you're not afraid to insert your foot at the very start. >You can't understand how it could actually be fair for you to have to pay for the services that remain available to you as a holder of a United States passport. What services could you possibly be talking about here? The holder of a US passport has exactly one service from the US government that's wor…

Services: help from the consulate. Ability to return to the US without getting a visa. Ability of your children to return at will to the US and benefit from our universities at a much lower rate than do non-citizens. Your backup plan.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#65

Post by fharper1961 »

researcher7 wrote: post #59

You complain about the US legal system, which based on the constitution protects everyone with due process rights, and like countries like the Netherlands which have no bill of rights? Me and my family spent our life savings, endured the horrors of leaving everything behind to come to the US to enjoy the liberty and rights that are guaranteed to everyone, yet people like you are not happy and want lower standards. Go…

The problem the OP brings up is when you're a USA citizen living outside of the USA.

It seems like you live in the USA, so you don't have to put up with all of the unreasonable and invasive bureaucracy she writes about.

Guilty until you prove yourself innocent is not the USA way! But that's what the current systems require USA expats to do every year.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#66

Post by dalke »

british_india wrote: post #63
dalke wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your anger is uncalled for. There's a trivial solution. As leoedin points out at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11071749#up_11072396 : > The UK embeds the cost of consular protection and embassy services into the renewal cost of a passport - approximately £15 in 2010, probably more now. It's an insurance payment that most people will never use, so it doesn't need to cost very much per person. I would gladly pay…

It's amusing that you attempt to marginalize well-reasoned opinions you don't share by labeling their holder as having "anger". Finally, do you think it costs $30 to maintain a consulate? Just stop your whining: either renounce or pay your taxes. Finally, in a civilized society, when you encounter laws you don't like--you work to get them changed. Otherwise you're just a childish scofflaw--no different than the bank…

> "do you think it costs $30 to maintain a consulate?"

I'll answer your question by quoting you: "Duh, no."

That's the cost spread across all the citizens with a passport for the extra citizen services which aren't included in the normal fees. There are 15M passports issued every year, so that's $750M each year. How much money do you think is needed?

I say "extra services" because there's no reason a passport fee should include the business promotion services of an embassy. There's no reason a passport fee should include the cost of the treaty negotiations and government-to-government liaison. There's no reason it should include the fees already captured elsewhere, like visa application fees or passport renewal fees. Nor is there a reason that a passport fee should include for paying for espionage done by the embassy.

It's amusing that you attempt to respond to my criticism by not understanding it.

I may be a whiner, but you are a liar if you call me a criminal. I pay $600/year in accounting fees to provide the necessary paperwork to the US to prove I owe them nothing. In addition to the taxes I pay the Swedish government.

Moreover, because I live in Sweden, my income and taxes is public information, so you can verify it for yourself if you think I'm lying.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#67

Post by anemitz »

1024core wrote: post #20
anemitz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are a US citizen and you get in trouble somewhere on earth, the US government will come to your aid. Agree this is worth something. I would propose a substantially decreased federal tax bracket (maybe 1-5%) for expats. Sort of like how you pay a decreased vehicle tax when it's not in use.

This would be worth something ... if it was true. See this, for example: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24...

As a general rule the U.S. government does help citizens abroad. I don't know all the details surrounding this article so I can't comment on whether or not DOS was right or wrong. With a little digging I'm sure you can find thousands of articles about citizens who were helped.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#68

Post by protomyth »

anemitz wrote: post #14
british_india wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really FATCA is one of the most excellent laws that has been passed. Prior to this, you had expats who had milked the US and then they wanted to waltz off with their proceeds. Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations. The entire US system is the envy of much of the world--and how did it get that way? Americans paying their taxes. Whether or not you have kids--you must pay property taxes t…

> If you are a US citizen and you get in trouble somewhere on earth, the US government will come to your aid. Agree this is worth something. I would propose a substantially decreased federal tax bracket (maybe 1-5%) for expats. Sort of like how you pay a decreased vehicle tax when it's not in use.

I would be ok with a "maintenance fee", but I'm against a straight up income tax.

> Sort of like how you pay a decreased vehicle tax when it's not in use

I've never heard of that one. You either pay or don't around here (ND, MN). In some states it is reduced with the value of the vehicle.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#69

Post by protomyth »

tn13 wrote: post #23
british_india wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really FATCA is one of the most excellent laws that has been passed. Prior to this, you had expats who had milked the US and then they wanted to waltz off with their proceeds. Americans gain huge benefits from the taxes paid by prior generations. The entire US system is the envy of much of the world--and how did it get that way? Americans paying their taxes. Whether or not you have kids--you must pay property taxes t…

I am really tired of this pro-pangada. It is so far from truth but one google search away from factcheck. Majority of the Federal government expenditure goes into Military/Social Security/Medicare. All of which can be substantially reduced. These three components cover more than 70% of total Federal spending. Out of this Medicare can be seen as taxing current generation to pay for the older generation. Almost all deb…

> Public schools in USA are the worst government institutions ever.

Clearly you've never dealt with the VA or IHS. Both of which are actually funded by the Federal Government as opposed to the States & Towns which mostly fund public schools.

Re: I renounced my US citizenship

#70

Post by gozur88 »

british_india wrote: post #64
gozur88 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see you're experiencing some cognitive dissonance. I see you're not afraid to insert your foot at the very start. >You can't understand how it could actually be fair for you to have to pay for the services that remain available to you as a holder of a United States passport. What services could you possibly be talking about here? The holder of a US passport has exactly one service from the US government that's wor…

Services: help from the consulate. Ability to return to the US without getting a visa. Ability of your children to return at will to the US and benefit from our universities at a much lower rate than do non-citizens. Your backup plan.

So, basically what I said earlier. Nothing but the right to come back.

What is that really worth? $50/year or so?

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