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Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

forums.comodo.com

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Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#61

Post by paulftw »

hosh wrote: post #37
amluto wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Comodo invented 90 day free certificate" It's even sillier than that. Comodo has long offered a 90 day free trial cert. You have to pay to renew. Let's Encrypt gives a 90 day free cert that's freely renewable as many times as you want along with an API to renew it. These aren't the same business models at all.

As far as I can tell, Let's Encrypt isn't a business model. It's funded by ISRG who describes themselves as a public-benefit corporation and is tax-exempt by the US tax authority. I don't see any direct profit motive for the ISRG itself, though there may be indirect profit benefits to the sponsors[1]. I don't see any direct ways Let's Encrypt takes payment; more likely, their revenue comes from donations. What I don'…

Bittorrent uploaders in general don't have a "business model" but are still a threat and a "competitor" to copyright holders. And are still breaking the law.

The point Comodo guy is trying to make is they invented/own the 90-day certificate, or specifically the magic number 90. If they actually do he has the moral right to be upset (but of course that doesn't mean trademark law or common sense stop being applicable to the words "Let's encrypt")

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#62

Post by mirimir »

detaro wrote: post #46
hosh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really the heart of the issue. He seems to be taking it as a point of honor, as if someone is stealing his business model ... but LE isn't a business. Comodo might or might have innovated a 90-day free trial. But let's say for a moment that Comodo did invent the 90-day free SSL trial. The intent is for the promotional purpose of purchasing paid products. LE has no paid tiers, and the primary motivation is…

Just because they are not in it for profit doesn't mean they are not a competitor to his business. It actually makes it worse from a purely business perspective.

Yes, and that's why he wanted the trademark. To kill them.

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#63

Post by johncolanduoni »

paulftw wrote: post #61
hosh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, Let's Encrypt isn't a business model. It's funded by ISRG who describes themselves as a public-benefit corporation and is tax-exempt by the US tax authority. I don't see any direct profit motive for the ISRG itself, though there may be indirect profit benefits to the sponsors[1]. I don't see any direct ways Let's Encrypt takes payment; more likely, their revenue comes from donations. What I don'…

Bittorrent uploaders in general don't have a "business model" but are still a threat and a "competitor" to copyright holders. And are still breaking the law. The point Comodo guy is trying to make is they invented/own the 90-day certificate, or specifically the magic number 90. If they actually do he has the moral right to be upset (but of course that doesn't mean trademark law or common sense stop being applicable t…

> invented/own the 90-day certificate

Seriously? Even the US patent office would balk at an application to patent 90-day trials or 90-day certificates. Also, Let's Encrypt isn't doing trials, so patenting the first wouldn't even make sense.

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#64

Post by _asummers »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #63
paulftw wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bittorrent uploaders in general don't have a "business model" but are still a threat and a "competitor" to copyright holders. And are still breaking the law. The point Comodo guy is trying to make is they invented/own the 90-day certificate, or specifically the magic number 90. If they actually do he has the moral right to be upset (but of course that doesn't mean trademark law or common sense stop being applicable t…

> invented/own the 90-day certificate Seriously? Even the US patent office would balk at an application to patent 90-day trials or 90-day certificates. Also, Let's Encrypt isn't doing trials, so patenting the first wouldn't even make sense.

Even if it doesn't... wouldn't Let's Encrypt just be able to change the default to 60 or something like that?

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#66

Post by johncolanduoni »

_asummers wrote: post #64
johncolanduoni wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> invented/own the 90-day certificate Seriously? Even the US patent office would balk at an application to patent 90-day trials or 90-day certificates. Also, Let's Encrypt isn't doing trials, so patenting the first wouldn't even make sense.

Even if it doesn't... wouldn't Let's Encrypt just be able to change the default to 60 or something like that?

Yeah, but if it was a defensible patent they would still be on the hook for using it at all. Thankfully, Let's Encrypt could show literally hundreds of cases of prior art for X-day trials.

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#67

Post by Cyph0n »

TruthAndDare wrote: post #20
dimdimdim wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else, not the "super mature", "super calculated", "super intelligent" begins they are made out to be. It's also important to note the arrogance - invented the 90 day trial :D

> Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else Um, it doesn't really say anything about most CEOs, does it? Actually, I think it shows how this guy is different from others, because he seems more nutty than most people.

How did someone like this become CEO? Or is it just his response to breaking under the pressure for the first time?

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#68

Post by dsr12 »

Let's Encryption updated their blog post:

"Update, June 24 2016

We have confirmed that Comodo submitted Requests for Express Abandonment for all three trademark registration applications in question. We’re happy to see this positive step towards resolution, and will continue to monitor the requests as they make their way through the system.

We’d like to thank our community for their support."

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#69

Post by viraptor »

I'll never be sure if this is true, but it will be in my memory... User robinalden is the CTO, who I tweeted ~2h before the response was posted (https://twitter.com/viraptor/status/746138644537237504). Given that he only posted 13 times on those forums, I hope I actually caused him to ask Melih what he's doing :)

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#70

Post by kordless »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #4

Evidently the company realized they were fighting a losing battle, particularly after the CEO's disastrous response: https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anyth...

> Trying to piggy back on our business model and copying our model of giving certificates for 90 days for free is not ethical.

I can't even imagine what he was thinking when he was saying this. Well, I can imagine dissonance, but not on the level from where this comes. It's literally insane, given it's business, and software business at that.

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