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Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#61

Post by piyush_soni »

nostromo wrote: post #37
hackuser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know enough about their new ethical approach to say whether it's PR, whether it's just a few well-publicized decisions, or whether it's broad-based and substantial. I'm not saying either way; I just don't know. But it could make me a loyal customer much more than cool design and fashionable cache ever would.

When they took on the FBI I decided that it was more than just vacuous PR. A PR person would bristle at the idea of denying to unlock the phone of a terrorist. It took real cojones for Apple to stand up for privacy at such a time.

I supported Apple's stand against the FBI, but believing it's purely altruistic would be simplistic and optimistic thinking at best. When safety and security are your perceived selling point, it's the best PR you can have. I'm not entirely sure about the validity of this nytimes article [1], but if we believe it, Tim Cook had asked FBI to submit their request 'in private' - but FBI did it openly, so Tim Cook 'had to' become the privacy crusader.

[1] : http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/technology/how-tim-cook-be...

Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#62

Post by piyush_soni »

smnscu wrote: post #40
nostromo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they took on the FBI I decided that it was more than just vacuous PR. A PR person would bristle at the idea of denying to unlock the phone of a terrorist. It took real cojones for Apple to stand up for privacy at such a time.

Wow, how gullible you are. It's obviously Apple and FBI are actually best buddies and this was just a PR move to sell more iPhones. Wake up, sheeple. /s Seriously, the cynicism in this thread is deplorable even for HN standards.

Language aside, the cynicism might not be entirely invalid too. It might be naive to believe any one side of the two (i.e., entirely PR, or entirely for 'the greater public good')

Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#63

Post by hochchristoph »

Kristine1975 wrote: post #46
headShrinker wrote: post #26

A move like this fits with a more general ideology Apple has been advocating for the last three years. Privacy, security, and ultruism. Tim Cook has put is mark on the company. One of the first things he did was apologize, (for maps) something unheard of in Apple's culture. I haven't drank the cool-aid and Apple has a lot of issues. I do see they however are making attempts at differentiating from the general corpora…

>altruism Then why does Apple avoid paying taxes? Let's not kid ourselves: Apple is a company, and companies are only "altruistic" if they expect that it will help their bottom line.

Let's not forget that in the US your shareholders can sue you, if they think you are not acting in their best interest.

Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#64

Post by aaronbrethorst »

andyjdavis wrote: post #55
nostromo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they took on the FBI I decided that it was more than just vacuous PR. A PR person would bristle at the idea of denying to unlock the phone of a terrorist. It took real cojones for Apple to stand up for privacy at such a time.

>A PR person would bristle at the idea of denying to unlock the phone of a terrorist Not if they were any good at their job. Very publicly standing up against what many would see as heavy handed government and being seen to defend the rights of the little guy (who happen to be their customers and potential customers) got them an enormous amount of very positive press not just in the US but in many countries. It would…

Good PR is sort of like a Turing Test of being a decent human being; it cannot be differentiated from being a reasonable person.

Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#65

Post by matt4077 »

andyjdavis wrote: post #55
nostromo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they took on the FBI I decided that it was more than just vacuous PR. A PR person would bristle at the idea of denying to unlock the phone of a terrorist. It took real cojones for Apple to stand up for privacy at such a time.

>A PR person would bristle at the idea of denying to unlock the phone of a terrorist Not if they were any good at their job. Very publicly standing up against what many would see as heavy handed government and being seen to defend the rights of the little guy (who happen to be their customers and potential customers) got them an enormous amount of very positive press not just in the US but in many countries. It would…

It's not easy to decide either way. I recently advised a women's rights organization in a similar matter: they were poised to publish a scathing (and somewhat stupid) indictment of islam with regards to women's rights. It's obviously a minefield, with popular opinion divided almost equally.

You have to judge the intensity of emotions it will cause in people, the propensity of people to act on those emotions and the base desirability of the different groups.

In this case, they rightly passed on the 'opportunity' because it seemed as if the people who would agree were unlikely to donate to women's rights in the first place (and vice-versa).

(And because their employees threatened to collectively quit)

Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#66

Post by matt4077 »

hochchristoph wrote: post #63
Kristine1975 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>altruism Then why does Apple avoid paying taxes? Let's not kid ourselves: Apple is a company, and companies are only "altruistic" if they expect that it will help their bottom line.

Let's not forget that in the US your shareholders can sue you, if they think you are not acting in their best interest.

Let's also remember that this is basically a myth, judges give wide latitude to management, and every company ever has (often consciously) acted against their self-interest.

Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#67

Post by IBM »

piyush_soni wrote: post #61
nostromo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they took on the FBI I decided that it was more than just vacuous PR. A PR person would bristle at the idea of denying to unlock the phone of a terrorist. It took real cojones for Apple to stand up for privacy at such a time.

I supported Apple's stand against the FBI, but believing it's purely altruistic would be simplistic and optimistic thinking at best. When safety and security are your perceived selling point, it's the best PR you can have. I'm not entirely sure about the validity of this nytimes article [1], but if we believe it, Tim Cook had asked FBI to submit their request 'in private' - but FBI did it openly, so Tim Cook 'had to'…

It's perfectly compatible to comply with the law and still be known for security and privacy and there's no reason Tim Cook "had to" oppose law enforcement. The only people who don't believe this is the HN crowd. This is a fraction of the people who believe Apple was in the wrong for opposing the FBI.

Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#68

Post by crypty »

gcr wrote: post #8

Is there any modern kernel in widespread use that runs while encrypted in RAM? What kind of attacks would encrypting a running kernel prevent? The kernel and hardware work together to enforce memory safety, so it can't be to prevent a rogue process from reading kernel memory... Edit: Is this talking about encrypting the kernel image in permanent storage, or encrypting a running kernel in RAM? When booting Linux for e…

> encrypting a running kernel in RAM

How is that supposed to work? Ok, the CPU can fetch an encrypted instruction, decrypt it and execute it, but when it needs to jump, how is it supposed to know where to jump? Also encrypting each instruction separately and independently would be trivial to reverse.

Is there any system that really runs encrypted code from RAM? Any papers describing such a system?

Re: Apple confirms iOS kernel code left unencrypted intentionally

#70

Post by evgen »

crypty wrote: post #68
gcr wrote: post #8

Is there any modern kernel in widespread use that runs while encrypted in RAM? What kind of attacks would encrypting a running kernel prevent? The kernel and hardware work together to enforce memory safety, so it can't be to prevent a rogue process from reading kernel memory... Edit: Is this talking about encrypting the kernel image in permanent storage, or encrypting a running kernel in RAM? When booting Linux for e…

> encrypting a running kernel in RAM How is that supposed to work? Ok, the CPU can fetch an encrypted instruction, decrypt it and execute it, but when it needs to jump, how is it supposed to know where to jump? Also encrypting each instruction separately and independently would be trivial to reverse. Is there any system that really runs encrypted code from RAM? Any papers describing such a system?

A company that Facebook acquired a couple of years ago (PrivateCore) realized that the L1 cache had grown large enough that you could run a hypervisor out of it. You use a TPM secure boot chain to ensure you are booting the code you need into the hardware you expect, load up the hypervisor and its keys, and then this hypervisor is used to encrypt _everything_. Now you have encrypted RAM, so physical possession of a running device gets you nothing at all.
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