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3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

theguardian.com

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Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#61

Post by dcacaac »

loxs wrote: post #54
dcacaac wrote: post #44

I am not really a minimalist intentionally, but I'd guess that at least by amount spent I rank near the very bottom of HN posters. Over the last 3 years I have averaged about $300-400 USD per month, which includes rent and a yearly visa. I don't own a phone and I have no air conditioning, hot water, television, etc. I bike or walk everywhere -- no car or moto. I do own a computer and a 12$ per month internet connecti…

What country is this in? Your budged is more than or maybe comparable to most people's budget in my home country - Bulgaria. And they certainly don't get to sacrifice hot water and phone. Please note that I'm not saying this in order to mock you. I'm genuinely interested (and practice to some extent, though nowhere close to you) in minimalist living and saving money.

In Cambodia, and yes, while my lifestyle seems minimalistic to me and to most expats here, I still live on about 3-4x what an average Cambodian does.

It's also been easier because I live in a bustling local neighborhood with a big market nearby, and Cambodia naturally has some of the best fruits and vegetables in the world. I haven't had to sacrifice at all on food, which is important to me. I do miss the clean air and open space that more affluent cities tend to have though.

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#62

Post by DiabloD3 »

dcacaac wrote: post #52
DiabloD3 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the irony is, that is what destroyed Japanese culture. The only part they got right was getting rid of the items that don't serve you. The part they got wrong was enforcing the behaviors that don't serve you. No true man (yes yes, no true scotsman argument, I'm aware of the fallacy, just stick with me on this) is served by being a "herbivore" or whatever term Japan uses for their men. If you look at producti…

I agree about the pitfalls of a work-obsessed culture, but your tangential speculation about meat, women, and causes of suicide in Japan seem comically simplistic and honestly prejudiced.

Honestly, I'm largely building this off of what Japan thinks of themselves on this. They are not exactly forthcoming about their opinions of their own culture, not nearly as much as Western culture produces tongue-in-cheek parodies of itself, but some of their media produces their own form of parody that is uncomfortably true for some Japanese.

I mean, not everything they do involves ultra manly almost psychotic men piloting giant robots. That would be prejudiced, and also a bit hilarious.

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#63

Post by 746F7475 »

dcacaac wrote: post #44

I am not really a minimalist intentionally, but I'd guess that at least by amount spent I rank near the very bottom of HN posters. Over the last 3 years I have averaged about $300-400 USD per month, which includes rent and a yearly visa. I don't own a phone and I have no air conditioning, hot water, television, etc. I bike or walk everywhere -- no car or moto. I do own a computer and a 12$ per month internet connecti…

I don't get this new fad of 'not having a phone'

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#64

Post by pjc50 »

struct wrote: post #13

As much as I like the idea of living with only a few possessions, it strikes me as a constant struggle: where do you put the 50 pack of envelopes you had to buy to send one letter? Are scissors for opening packaging included in his possessions? Nail trimmers? Toiletries? A formal pair of shoes? Do you have to hire all this stuff when you need it, or just keep in a drawer out of sight? And this is what I didn't get ab…

This kind of thing is a subset of "intentional living" and "intentional communities", where one's life is lived as some sort of ideological point rather than the most direct route.

There's a hint that this might be rather like how some alcoholics have to throw away all their booze and refuse to ever have any in the house as a necessary step to recovering from addiction. People describe having an unhealthy relationship with their "stuff" and then take drastic action to end that relationship almost completely.

It's only really possible for single, childless people, but I think it's only easy to get into that bad stuff-relationship if you're living by yourself. Otherwise the stuff-relationship is subordinated to the person-relationship, and some balance is achieved somehow. Possibly through daily minor arguments.

For me, it seems unconscionable as I don't have a vivid enough memory to live without artefacts to remind me. What does the minimalist do if you give them a present? Do they feel themselves obliged to throw it away or at least re-gift it? Have they not been through the social ritual of being obliged to wear the sweater / display the item they were given lest it be a snub? Or is that what they're trying to get away from?

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#65

Post by sevenless »

Kind of emblematic of our Generation Rent. If you're never going to own property, there's no reason to accumulate stuff that will burden your next move...

Having so few clothes isn't a good idea, because it's not a full washer load. You're doing more laundry than you need to, and you don't have an alternative if you get them ripped or dirty. It makes more sense to have 10 shirts and 2 pairs of pants. If you can afford it, fine wool and synthetic fabrics are more durable, quick drying and travel friendly than cotton.

I (somewhat nomadic; 3 continent moves so far) don't practise any kind of conscious minimalism, but here's my rule: if I haven't used it in a year, out it goes. That means I've thrown out or sold some nice things, but I don't accumulate crap. It also means I'm more careful about buying in the first place. I don't own books; that's what pdfs are for.

Travel minimalism is another thing. If you spend lots of time traveling you also learn to pack for one single carry-on bag. I recommend turning sets of clothes and underwear into neat little one-day burritos: https://huckberry.com/journal/posts/how-to-skivvy-roll

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#66

Post by vmateixeira »

sevenless wrote: post #65

Kind of emblematic of our Generation Rent. If you're never going to own property, there's no reason to accumulate stuff that will burden your next move... Having so few clothes isn't a good idea, because it's not a full washer load. You're doing more laundry than you need to, and you don't have an alternative if you get them ripped or dirty. It makes more sense to have 10 shirts and 2 pairs of pants. If you can affor…

..because it's not a full washer load

You're assuming he washes his clothes on a washing machine

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#67

Post by lmm »

struct wrote: post #13

As much as I like the idea of living with only a few possessions, it strikes me as a constant struggle: where do you put the 50 pack of envelopes you had to buy to send one letter? Are scissors for opening packaging included in his possessions? Nail trimmers? Toiletries? A formal pair of shoes? Do you have to hire all this stuff when you need it, or just keep in a drawer out of sight? And this is what I didn't get ab…

> where do you put the 50 pack of envelopes you had to buy to send one letter? Are scissors for opening packaging included in his possessions? Nail trimmers? Toiletries? A formal pair of shoes? Do you have to hire all this stuff when you need it, or just keep in a drawer out of sight?

(I don't know whether this is official KonMari)

It's allowed to be there, but you don't think of it as a possession: you think of it as disposable. If you need those things when e.g. you're traveling, you buy them there and leave them behind or throw them away. Same thing if you move house. If you lose them you don't worry about it - when you need them you'll buy them. If you end up buying two or three, you don't worry about that either.

> And this is what I didn't get about the KonMari method either: a formal suit doesn't "bring me joy" any more than a sink plunger, but both are necessary.

If you're talking about a suit you wear every day for work that doesn't bring you joy you should try to find a job where you don't need to wear it. If you're talking about having a suit occasionally for weddings or the like it's much better to hire one when you need it - no need to store it, no need to arrange cleaning it, no need to worry about whether it still fits when you dig it out of the cupboard.

You can buy a plunger when you need one - we're talking about maybe $5 every two years.

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#68

Post by kagamine »

746F7475 wrote: post #63
dcacaac wrote: post #44

I am not really a minimalist intentionally, but I'd guess that at least by amount spent I rank near the very bottom of HN posters. Over the last 3 years I have averaged about $300-400 USD per month, which includes rent and a yearly visa. I don't own a phone and I have no air conditioning, hot water, television, etc. I bike or walk everywhere -- no car or moto. I do own a computer and a 12$ per month internet connecti…

I don't get this new fad of 'not having a phone'

I have 2 phones and I would happily have none. My work phone is basically a calendar and email with some time-wasting junk on it (games etc). My personal phone is an mp3 player and a phone, but the damn things drive me crazy because people always want an answer NOW! and the phones need charging every day, at least once.

I have now left a programming book in the bathroom because reading up on something useful is a much better use of the now shorter time spent there than playing to get to the next level/high score.

Phones now feel oppressive where once they felt amazing. I think of all the great artists that came before us and I wonder if we are 'missing' great music or art from the alternative timeline in which a generation is not wasting time on shooting birds at pigs.

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#69

Post by lmm »

maga wrote: post #57

As a tech nomad, minimalism wasn't quite optional in my case, and it's really not that hard to get rid of stuff if you put your mind into it. What I have problem minimizing is the amount of gadgetry. I use a phablet for phone and tablet tasks, and a notebook as a workstation which is connected to extra monitors, storage and such when in an office. While it may not sound as much, I think I could get away with less. If…

The Surface Book is really nice, especially with the Surface Dock - leave the Dock connected to everything at your desk, use the tablet half on its own when you don't need fancy graphics or keyboard, or the whole thing for notebook-like tasks. A 13.5" tablet isn't quite small enough to take everywhere, but might cover enough of the cases - you'd still want some kind of phone I think but maybe a small one would be enough (or that big samsung smartwatch that has its own cellular connectivity).

Re: 3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists

#70

Post by dcacaac »

746F7475 wrote: post #63
dcacaac wrote: post #44

I am not really a minimalist intentionally, but I'd guess that at least by amount spent I rank near the very bottom of HN posters. Over the last 3 years I have averaged about $300-400 USD per month, which includes rent and a yearly visa. I don't own a phone and I have no air conditioning, hot water, television, etc. I bike or walk everywhere -- no car or moto. I do own a computer and a 12$ per month internet connecti…

I don't get this new fad of 'not having a phone'

It's not a fad for me. I didn't use a phone much in the US and I've never owned a smart phone. I only associate with people in my neighborhood and people online, so I really have no need.
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