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The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

niniane.blogspot.com

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Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#61

Post by mosselman »

adwn wrote: post #19

To summarize: Most of the team wants to watch progam A; watching program A during dinner is an established team ritual; author wants to change channel to program B, which is "met with incredulity and laughter". Some time later, program B is running; team members come in and want to change the channel to program A. And that latter event is the most alienating during her time at Microsoft. Wat. It gets better: Because…

I completely accept that there IS sexism, especially in sectors that are dominated mainly by one gender, but this example is ill chosen.

In fact I feel discriminated against as a man. I'd much rather watch Friends that baseball, but apparently the author claims I'd much rather watch baseball because of my genes.

"Cool story bro". Fistbump.

Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#62

Post by adwn »

beemboy wrote: post #37

Lots of males here providing shameful confirmation of the same thoughtless behavior the OP is calling out (finally after all these years). By focusing on specifics most commenters here seen to be missing the point that subtle marginalizing behaviors cause harm in unseen ways.

> Lots of males here providing shameful confirmation of the same thoughtless behavior the OP is calling out (finally after all these years).

How do you know they are males? Do you think that the main anecdote in the linked article is about sexism, and if so, why?

Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#63

Post by nabla9 »

Imagine the same situation in UK, you are foreigner and everybody is watching cricket.

Cultural alienation is not somebody's fault. It happens when you are minority in a group that has different culture. In these kind of situations basic politeness and hospitality would lessen the effect. The solution is not to watch Friends sometimes to distribute boredom more equally.

People who have been born in monoculture are not usually aware of the work needed to have fun and inclusive social event. Outside the work those who are alienated leave. The "mandatory fun" in workplace may need work from the host to be inclusive.

Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#64

Post by patates »

Swizec wrote: post #18

> If I had walked in, and baseball was showing on the television, it would be completely unthinkable for me to grab the remote and change it to Friends. Why? I wonder if she ever tried, or just assumed it was unthinkable. I suspect it was less unthinkable than she thinks it was. From the rest of the story, it sounds like not only was it thinkable for people to try to change the channel, it was expected even. Otherwis…

> Assert dominance

IMO this is discrimination. You may get away with suggesting a specific role, maybe a negotiator, would need to have/develop this ability. As a very accepting and peaceful guy, I really feel bad (insecure, even) when people assert that I need to be dominant to be successful.

BTW, I'm not trying to explain why you are being down-voted as I didn't, wouldn't (and also can't) down-vote you.

Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#65

Post by Kristine1975 »

x0 wrote: post #56

Christ there's some ugly comments down the bottom of this thread. I always thought Hacker News was a bit more professional than reddit, now it seems the only difference is the comments calling her a "feminist", "c--t", "retard" are downvoted below threshold here.

That is a big difference though: It shows that these comments are not welcome on HN.

Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#66

Post by croon »

golergka wrote: post #41
EliRivers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have misrepresented the case, although I do agree that it's not overtly a male/female thing. People are in a shared TV-viewing area. There is something being shown on TV. New person enters and decides to change the channel without asking. This is the action of a total dickhead. I don't care what the established ritual is. If a group of people are clearly watching something else (and they must be, because here the…

But the story doesn't tell us that anyone was actually watching Friends at the moment.

It's inferred by people being in the area to laugh at everyone picking up the remote.

Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#67

Post by emsy »

asQuirreL wrote: post #30
emsy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure whether you're serious or ironic. This is a social dynamic I've witnessed several times in my life, in male-only and mixed-gender groups. When someone acts against the groups collective will, he or she faces an "outcry". I don't condone this, but to call this out as a gender or diversity issue seems to be a bit of a stretch.

I feel like it is a diversity issue, albeit not of the usual kind, and it is not exclusive to groups whose identity is strongly linked to gender. All groups will try and preserve their own identity, because if they don't, they stop existing. I'm merely making an observation here, not condoning the actions of groups. This kind of behaviour may seem harmless in some situations, but then also fuels some of the worst ins…

I see where you're coming from but I disagree with the argument, because it only holds up under the assumption that they acted this way mainly to preserve the group identity. The simpler explanation is that the group made a democratic choice and she was unhappy with thre result.

Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#68

Post by nicolas_t »

Well, I'm male and I've been in the same exact situation multiple times. I do not like sports. I find watching sports on tv to be an absolute boring waste of time.

Try suggesting in Europe, that you don't want to watch a soccer match and instead would like to watch Friends (which I like incidentally). It'll be met with ridicule.

If there's something on the tv and soccer match is coming, you can be 100% sure that people will change it to the soccer game without even asking.

I don't think that's a question of sexism, it's just a question of shared culture and the fact that most people cannot imagine that there are people that do not like soccer. For some people, someone not liking soccer is as shocking as someone declaring himself an atheist during the times of the inquisition.

There are a lot of problems for women in tech but I think that in the case of sports, it's a behavior that touches equally men and women who do not like sports.

Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer

#70

Post by patates »

fleitz wrote: post #49
yomly wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty awful. Out of interest, what did the CEO do? Sounds like a pretty bold thing for the other employee to say in front of the CEO. What was the context? Could that employee have equally said something as vile to another man without repercussion?

I'm a man, I changed my gender to see if it would stop the downvotes, it did. He looked at the other guy told him to apologize while I had my fist in the air. We moved on. Don't worry, you're free to change your opinion now that you know I'm a man. I mostly didn't care except for having to punch the guy out which was thankfully avoided by him retracting his statement.

Why did you have to punch him? One could imagine why you would want to, but...
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