Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns • Hacker News Board

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#61

Post by naveen99 » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:12 PM UTC

TheLarch wrote: post #2

With the advancement of technology it's harder and harder to sympathize with the idea that firearms in the US could effectively combat governmental tyranny. Situations such as Ruby Ridge and Waco could be handled by drones now. It's hard to believe that there is a principle at play here deeper than a simple love of guns.

by the US, I guess you mean the federal government. Remember people are actually at various smaller levels. Any sort of rebellion would require organization atleast at the city level. Cities have police forces, some of which have access to firearms, and maybe even a few non-active duty or defecting soldiers. After the federal government puts down uprisings at a few cities, they might get whole states defecting, if those city dwellers had powerful friends. This is not even considering possible rebellions at outfits like corporations, which are little countries in themselves, which internal economies, surveillance of their employees etc...

But realistically i can't even imagine USA going to war with any major trading partner, much less their own population.

More likely is some corrupt local city government gets ousted by organized people defecting to neighboring towns... again neighboring towns have police / weapons. But you can also just sue cities in state / federal court probably, as they don't have sovereignty. Not to mention elections. So again, i don't really see cities doing anything too stupid to a majority of their own population...

i think the need for weapons will continue to decrease as time goes on and the world economy consolidates more and more... weapons are mostly for sport, just like boxing or mma. Its more of a staged drama...

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#62

Post by phd514 » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:17 PM UTC

jonstokes wrote: post #15

danharaj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well guns don't do anything on their own, people do. Organizations of people overthrow governments. I think access to violence is important for the success of such organizations as the past has shown. I think your examples of the governments sieging individuals who refused to bend to its will just demonstrate what kind of resistance fails to threaten the government. The only way to resist a tyrannical government is t…

One of the most interesting things about the gun rights community is how strenuously this exact question of "where do you draw the bright line that, once crossed, you'll rise up?" is avoided. You know how that guy took that video of himself asking anti-abortion protestors, "if abortion is murder, then shouldn't we put women who procure abortions on trial for murder?" and they all just short-circuited, like they'd nev…

I think you're underestimating the network effects of widespread, private gun ownership. It's true that private gun owners will rarely coalesce into a potent political organization (NRA notwithstanding), but those types of organizations often form in reaction to external pressures. In other words, the more oppressive the government becomes, the more likely such organizations would be formed.

Additionally, even without formal organization, they do serve as deterrents against crime. And then, of course, there are also individual benefits, but that's yet another matter.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#63

Post by abakker » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

Aelinsaar wrote: post #55

djloche wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easier and more economical to mill with a cnc. It is probably far cheaper even to just walk to the gun store and buy a rifle than it is to 3D print something similar.

A CNC is something that is pitifully easy for a regulatory agency to track, as far as large numbers of purchases go. See: that fellow who was milling AR-15 lowers and just got busted. We're talking about the difference between machining metal, and downloading and printing a schematic. I hope that you do see the difference.

It is easier to track distributing a sold product. It is very difficult to track what a person makes in the comfort of their home. I dont think the federal government keeps a registry for the purchase of milling machines.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#64

Post by Programmatic » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:30 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #23

bifrost wrote: post #6

IMHO this whole movement is out there to point out how ridiculous some legislation is. Pretty much anyone with a brain can make a deadly weapon with time and materials. They even make guns in prisons, so of course someone could 3d print the serialized parts of a gun. In certain types of guns those 3d printed parts are only minorly structual so they don't receive that much force, you could even conceivably hand carve…

I remember when there was a rumor going around of a guy who took an old shovel and made it into an AK type firearm. Found a link with photos: http://acidcow.com/pics/40255-ak-47-made-out-of-a-shovel-49-...

The AK in particular is an interesting weapon in that the controlled part (legislation around guns deals with the concrete part that "is" the firearm, which is the action that houses nearly all of the other parts) is made out of stamped/bent sheet metal.

The harder part in the case of an AK is the parts kit that has all of the other parts that must be actually machined. Step 0 of making an AK from a shovel is "buy a parts kit made from an entire old, previously functional gun minus the sheet metal and wooden furniture". In terms of making a true firearm from scratch an AK would still be fairly difficult. In terms of making a technical "firearm" (the controlled part), the AK is one of the simplest.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#65

Post by jbmorgado » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

djloche wrote: post #29

TheLarch wrote: post #2

With the advancement of technology it's harder and harder to sympathize with the idea that firearms in the US could effectively combat governmental tyranny. Situations such as Ruby Ridge and Waco could be handled by drones now. It's hard to believe that there is a principle at play here deeper than a simple love of guns.

The existence of an armed, trained civilian population prevents the current government from going completely insane with the vast power they've thus far been allowed to take and selectively abuse. I'd love to see the people take some of the power back without a bloody, internal war.

"The existence of an armed, trained civilian population prevents the current government from going completely insane with the vast power they've thus far been allowed to take and selectively abuse."

Yes, that's why basically all Europe lives in a dictatorship now-a-days due to our gun control laws.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#66

Post by pkinsky » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:54 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #44

jonstokes wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're left to argue that the US military has pulled its punches on the Taliban, but they're really gonna take the gloves off if they get turned against their fellow citizens. Good luck with that.

The whole scenario is predicated on some horrible tyrant taking control of the US. Why wouldn't the gloves come off in that case?

Because said tyrant wishes to avoid a coup by the armed forces/defections to the rebels/etc?

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#67

Post by knodi123 » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

bifrost wrote: post #6

IMHO this whole movement is out there to point out how ridiculous some legislation is. Pretty much anyone with a brain can make a deadly weapon with time and materials. They even make guns in prisons, so of course someone could 3d print the serialized parts of a gun. In certain types of guns those 3d printed parts are only minorly structual so they don't receive that much force, you could even conceivably hand carve…

I wouldn't say "anybody with a brain". It still requires a lot of time, motivation, and uncommon resources.

The real question is , should the law take any effort toward minimizing gun ownership by dangerous fruitcakes? If yes, then making it hard to trivially 3d print a gun is kind of necessary, otherwise, like you said, anybody with a brain could do it. Instead of now, where it requires a bit more.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#68

Post by blakes » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 8:00 PM UTC

jbmorgado wrote: post #65

djloche wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of an armed, trained civilian population prevents the current government from going completely insane with the vast power they've thus far been allowed to take and selectively abuse. I'd love to see the people take some of the power back without a bloody, internal war.

"The existence of an armed, trained civilian population prevents the current government from going completely insane with the vast power they've thus far been allowed to take and selectively abuse." Yes, that's why basically all Europe lives in a dictatorship now-a-days due to our gun control laws.

Hey, you never know.

Also, I'll bet the American government is a lot more afraid of the people than most European governments are of their people. I suppose that could be argued either way to be a good or a bad thing.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#69

Post by Frondo » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 8:02 PM UTC

RyJones wrote: post #50

jonstokes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most interesting things about the gun rights community is how strenuously this exact question of "where do you draw the bright line that, once crossed, you'll rise up?" is avoided. You know how that guy took that video of himself asking anti-abortion protestors, "if abortion is murder, then shouldn't we put women who procure abortions on trial for murder?" and they all just short-circuited, like they'd nev…

I don't disagree with your most of your points, and I would go further: most gun owners are buying fashion items without any intention to use them, ever, in any way. I suspect there is another reason to consider about reticence to discuss where the line is and what exactly the plan is once crossed: the POR against insurgency is find, fix, and destroy [0] and there has been plenty of domestic [1] practice. Why make yo…

"most gun owners are buying fashion items"--thank you, I've never seen it better said.

As for where the line is drawn, well, I think the biggest reason people don't want to draw any such lines is because the US government isn't a tyranny and isn't heading there in any way.

One of the biggest political issues in recent times is, of course, health care, but can you imagine how stupid it would come off as to try and lead a revolution against mandatory health insurance? Likewise for every other hot-button issue--armed revolution because now gay marriage is a thing? Because it's harder to find incandescent light bulbs? Mandated gas mileage improvements?

Wherever you'd draw the line and not have it be 100% asinine, it'd be so far from reality that even declaring "here and no further" would make you look dumb.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#70

Post by return0 » Mon, Jun 06, 2016, 8:07 PM UTC

djloche wrote: post #29

TheLarch wrote: post #2

With the advancement of technology it's harder and harder to sympathize with the idea that firearms in the US could effectively combat governmental tyranny. Situations such as Ruby Ridge and Waco could be handled by drones now. It's hard to believe that there is a principle at play here deeper than a simple love of guns.

The existence of an armed, trained civilian population prevents the current government from going completely insane with the vast power they've thus far been allowed to take and selectively abuse. I'd love to see the people take some of the power back without a bloody, internal war.

That american idea can only hold ground in the US, a country that has not experienced an external threat or revolution since its inception. The world's revolutions started from relatively unarmed people. Once the flame is ignited, and the socioeconomic conditions fan the flame, there is little chance a government can stop it.