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Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

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Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#61

Post by make3 »

droithomme wrote: post #7

"I think there has to be a consequence for what he has done."" I agree with Holder on this. Snowden should get a ticker tape parade, the Congressional Medal of Freedom, and the Nobel Peace Prize.

I agree. I think however those must come at least with a delay though I'm afraid, realistically, or it would send too much of a double message about how the US treats the sources of it's intelligence leaks. Intelligence safety is still a pretty big deal.. you can't just go and have the president give a medal to the guy responsible for one of the biggest intelligence leaks of all time.

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#62

Post by internaut »

newjersey wrote: post #18
internaut wrote: post #2

I'm wondering if they're getting ready to pardon him, perhaps with a provision like spending 10 years under house arrest or losing his citizenship. I don't think this could happen under Clinton but Obama might issue a last minute pardon as they tend to do when they leave office. Failing that it is possible Trump might do it as a sign of pragmaticism. He's the only one who could sell it to his supporters, the same mig…

> I'm wondering if they're getting ready to pardon him, perhaps with a provision like spending 10 years under house arrest or losing his citizenship. I don't think this could happen under Clinton but Obama might issue a last minute pardon as they tend to do when they leave office. Failing that it is possible Trump might do it as a sign of pragmaticism. He's the only one who could sell it to his supporters, the same m…

People have lived in bubbles forever but now with the Net they're encountering oppositional thoughts directly without filtering. This conflict further deepens already existing society division through a kind of memetic assortative mating.

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#63

Post by lewisl9029 »

gizmo686 wrote: post #58
lewisl9029 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also agree with this. He should get all that, in addition to a proper trial in court for some of his misconducts, because while I do believe he performed a great public service that sparked a hugely beneficial conversation regarding privacy and government secrecy, he also neglected one of his basic responsibilities as a whistleblower by offloading all the documents he could get his hands on to the press in their or…

Snowden didn't release documents to "the media", he gave them to two particular journalists (Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras), who did perform due dilligence before releasing documents. This is a well established practice that helps protect against the bias of the leaker from interfering with an objective judgement of what should be redacted.

While I still disagree that Snowden's blind trust in those two particular journalists (whom I referred to as "the media", not to discredit these two journalists in particular, but because I was trying make a more general statement) was justified considering the massive scale of his leak and the fact that he was quite literally dealing with matters of national security, I admit that the trade-off between having more objectivity in what gets redacted vs the risk of leaking damaging confidential information of no public interest is an interesting one that I hadn't considered. Do you have any references for why this might be considered an established practice?

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#64

Post by StanislavPetrov »

slg wrote: post #60
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hire David Duke to write about race relations you don't have to tell him what to write. You hire David Duke because you know exactly what you are getting.

You are really equating every journalist working for a mainstream media company with the former head of the KKK? I'm not sure how I should even respond to crazy allegations like that. This has been one of the annoying side effects of Snowden. Suddenly one conspiracy theory proved to be true, so now some people think that any conspiracy theory has a chance to be true. Soon we end up with people suggesting that tens of…

>You are really equating every journalist working for a mainstream media company with the former head of the KKK? I'm not sure how I should even respond to crazy allegations like that.

Perhaps the concept of an analogy is alien to your world, so I'll try to make it simpler for you. If you hire someone whose views are well known to write for you, you have a pretty good idea of knowing what you are going to get without having to offer specific instructions. If you hire Robert Kagan to write a foreign policy column in your newspaper, you don't have to send him a secret message urging him to back an invasion. He already backs every invasion. Understand?

As far as your vapid conjecture about conspiracy theories go, the media is literally littered with writers who have either been directly paid, or who stand to gain (financially and otherwise) for endorsing certain positions. These are not conspiracies, its standard practice.

Whether these media pundits are paid by the White House to endorse their policies:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-01-06-wi...

Or secretly instructing retired military "analysts" on news networks on how to shape the narrative:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html

And when you don't parrot the party line, they get rid of you, like they did to Phil Donahue when he was critical of the Iraq invasion:

http://billmoyers.com/2013/03/25/the-day-that-tv-news-died/

Or when government officials limit press access to only those reporters who are willing to offer the official narrative:

http://www.ap.org/Content/AP-In-The-News/2013/News-media-pro...

In short, you are delusional or woefully under informed if you don't think that the media narrative is controlled and shaped by the powerful interests that run this country.

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#65

Post by w3ightl355 »

woodman wrote: post #24

What a load of BS. He praises him for "raising the debate", but condemns him for "...the way he did it -- was inappropriate and illegal..." then going on to invite him to "Go to trial, try to cut a deal." The issue has been brought up many times, with no positive change, because there was no massive dump of incredibly embarrassing evidence. All those hoping for some kind of Obama surprise turn around in the unprecede…

"...the way he did it -- was inappropriate and illegal..."

What the government was doing (and still is) is inappropriate and illegal. Can't Holder understand or accept the fact that this is why Snowden chose the option that he did? Of course, were matters of law are concerned, I'm not sure Holder is a good source - he after all, let the biggest heist in the civilized world go without consequence to those involved.

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#66

Post by jflatow »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #64
slg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are really equating every journalist working for a mainstream media company with the former head of the KKK? I'm not sure how I should even respond to crazy allegations like that. This has been one of the annoying side effects of Snowden. Suddenly one conspiracy theory proved to be true, so now some people think that any conspiracy theory has a chance to be true. Soon we end up with people suggesting that tens of…

>You are really equating every journalist working for a mainstream media company with the former head of the KKK? I'm not sure how I should even respond to crazy allegations like that. Perhaps the concept of an analogy is alien to your world, so I'll try to make it simpler for you. If you hire someone whose views are well known to write for you, you have a pretty good idea of knowing what you are going to get without…

And when what's being said doesn't fit the media narrative, they just edit it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1SUQ1qtdb0

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#67

Post by alanwatts »

slg wrote: post #46
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is this argument not immediately raised every time some clown uses the "he broke the law, he has to face the music" argument? Corporate media outlets exist to disseminate propaganda, not seek consistent, logical answers to important questions. They seek to frame the debate in the context constructed by Wall Street and Washington and redirect anger and angst so that people fight against each other instead of agai…

>Corporate media outlets exist to disseminate propaganda, not seek consistent, logical answers to important questions... Do you honestly believe this? How do you think an article like this gets written? Do you think that there is some secret puppet master that dictated the talking points of this article or that every journalist including the one who wrote this article is in on some huge conspiracy? Are those options…

>Are those options really more likely that some journalists simple have different opinions than you?

Obviously not. But if those journalists have different opinions than executive management on important issues, like Phil Donahue opposing invading Iraq on MSNBC, then they'll be fired.

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#68

Post by alanwatts »

woodman wrote: post #31
mmaunder wrote: post #9

I think this is a trial balloon and Holder is acting as a stalking horse for the Obama administration. They're setting up to pardon him if the public approves.

More prosecutions under the Espionage Act than every prior administration combined... I don't see a pardon in the cards. Also, a trial balloon wouldn't be Holder calling for a trial - that has been said many times by many politicians for a long time.

Couldn't it be more advantageous for them to pardon him rather than taking him to trial and risking exposure of the details?

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#69

Post by alexandercrohde »

What a confusing remark. He says that both it is a "public service" "but still must pay a penalty." I don't understand what that means, why should one pay a penalty for a public service?

I also think this line "America's interest" is thrown around a lot. Are we talking the interest of Americans? Or interests of the American government? It seems more and more now the two are at odds with each other...

Re: Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a 'public service'

#70

Post by asveikau »

tosseraccount wrote: post #40
blackguardx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that Powell was a man of integrity and really resented being used by the Bush administration to provide justification for the war. I thought he was just regurgitating the lies told to him. Edit: Am I being downvoted for expressing my knowledge of the situation? If you think I am wrong, say so. Try to educate me. Downvoting for disagreeing does nothing. When he testified about yellowcake ura…

Leading poltical figures in the other party reported that Iraq had WMDs and used such arguments to wage war on Iraq before Bush. http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_%281998%29

I don't understand what this contributes to the discussion. The other side did something like it too, therefore it was completely justified?
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