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All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

english.eu2016.nl

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Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#61

Post by WhoBeI »

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it.

EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget are public funds it's basically going to be paid for by the EU in most cases.

The "when and if" means that you can choose not to publish or you can choose to publish after you have sought protection (patent). You can also, as a publisher, have a wait period before research papers become "open access" to, I don't know, be an asshole I guess.

Reference (pdf): http://ec.europa.eu/research/participants/data/ref/h2020/gra...

Edit: The little pdf warning.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#62

Post by hackuser »

Fomite wrote: post #24
maerF0x0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet, in practice, this will mean some researchers will avoid public funds as it will come with overhead they do not want (publishing rules). But for most this will be a big win.

I have never, in my entire life, avoided funding that would also make my work more accessible to a broader audience. I don't know any other academics who would do so either.

Responses like yours aren't an unrepresentative sample of academics - the ones who read HN and might have more interest in openness of information? A serious question.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#65

Post by iangpmulvany »

Of related interest, I"m just back from a workshop on Open Science from a group that advises the commissioner. I was an invited expert in to the workshop. This is part of the route through which announcements like the one linked here get made. I've written up my noted https://medium.com/p/7691802b543a

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#66

Post by hackuser »

WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

> I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund

In fairness, we pay twice for many things, such a toll roads. The first payment isn't always sufficient.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#67

Post by holyoly »

hackuser wrote: post #66
WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

> I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund In fairness, we pay twice for many things, such a toll roads. The first payment isn't always sufficient.

That doesn't make any sense... How does having one screwed up system justify another? Maybe we should start paying twice for groceries too, because we pay twice for toll roads and research papers...

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#68

Post by hackuser »

holyoly wrote: post #67
hackuser wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund In fairness, we pay twice for many things, such a toll roads. The first payment isn't always sufficient.

That doesn't make any sense... How does having one screwed up system justify another? Maybe we should start paying twice for groceries too, because we pay twice for toll roads and research papers...

My point is, whether or not you pay a fair amount doesn't depend on how many times you pay. Let's say your fair share is $10; $3 goes via taxes and $7 via the other mechanism. Here's a couple of scenarios where it's a good choice:

1) The new road is 60% in the public interest and 40% in the interest of its users, so 60% is paid with taxes and 40% via tolls.

2) Society feels it's reasonable that all children, regardless of family income, should have educational resources. 90% of school is funded by taxes and 10% funded by fees paid by students' families (lunch, field trips, books, etc.).

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#69

Post by MrBra »

My thoughts are for those that are not with us anymore that helped make this slowly happen... I say thank you, but if I could choose I'd rather have them back and get to this results a bit later.

It's nothing new that in this field sometimes people have a tendency to put their ideals of progress before their own life.

No matter how strong is your love for your world changing ideas, YOU as a person come first.

Unless (but you could also argue about that) without your sacrifice the whole world population would be at immediate risk of extinction..

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#70

Post by igravious »

merijnv wrote: post #20
maerF0x0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet, in practice, this will mean some researchers will avoid public funds as it will come with overhead they do not want (publishing rules). But for most this will be a big win.

Ahahahahaha. First of all: Researchers won't avoid public funds, because there's never enough money. Second of all: Most researchers HATE academic publishers and being forced to sign over their copyright to a paywall in exchange for nothing. But institutional evaluation criteria force you to do so. EU banning non-open publications will force publishers to allow open access OR force universities to revise their criter…

> Elsevier can blow a goat

I'm into the history of logic at the moment. As in not the filtered oh-so-neat version that is presented at third-level but the nitty-gritty twists and turns from Ancient Greece (go team Aristotle!), Indian, Arabic, Scholastic, Medieval, Pre-modern, the rise of symbolic/algebraic logic, Kant/Hegel/Trendelenburg, on to Frege and then the multiplication of logics (modal/tense/deontic, …) in the 20th century ending with type theory.

Recently Elsevier contracted top logicians to produce a Handbook in the History of Logic. It runs to 11 volumes, each volume north of $300. So folks, if you want to get acquainted with the complete history of what is supposed to be a formalisation of rational thought it can be yours for $3,300 or thereabouts. There is no reason this should not be in the public domain, it's too fundamental and central to history of ideas. I could buy two cheap second-hand cars for that price. (Personally I have used SciHub to have a look and I don't mind saying so.)

Now I would like to think that top logicians are not complicit in this scam, but I fear they are. I have a burning desire to crowd-source a website that provides the same information. >95% of the papers/texts are out of copyright. These academics already have very lucrative salaries and grants. I don't think we can point the finger exclusively at the Elseviers of this world, they have had a little bit of help along the way. Here in HN we have a bit of an open-access echo chamber. Some academics are very happy with the status quo, and who wouldn't be with those prices? I think it's _insane_.

I'll post names and links of the details if people are interested.

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