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Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

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Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#61

Post by pekk »

istorical wrote: post #28

The discussion around Vive vs Rift and Valve vs Oculus is getting more and more emotionally clouded and "good guys vs bad guys" with each passing week. People are letting their own frustration around Oculus' poorly managed launch and non-existent PR affect their perspective on the situation. The fact is that although Oculus is adopting somewhat of a walled garden approach, people entirely overlook that Valve maintain…

It is grossly deceptive to say that Steam has a monopoly on games distribution when a vast number of the games on Steam are also distributed by other channels. I can't name any "Steam exclusives," which is more than I can say for Origin etc.

Frankly it's absurd to psychoanalyze Steam, saying that it wants to do what other companies are doing, and not to recognize that if it wanted to do those things it could easily do so.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#62

Post by pekk »

davesque wrote: post #18
ohitsdom wrote: post #8

Really cool tech, but kind of a depressing start to this young industry. I feel like desktop apps are making huge strides in being cross-platform, both in attention from developers and the lower development effort required thanks to a myriad of software platforms and tools. It's just sad to see games still clinging to "exclusives" as if that's a positive thing.

Well, when you get a big player like Facebook involved...

It's strange, though, because Facebook wasn't in the games business like this before, so they did have a choice of what approach they were going to take. There's no real reason they couldn't have come out swinging for open standards, for example.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#63

Post by paavokoya »

errantspark wrote: post #53

Been working on VR side projects for 3 years now, I've built against the DK1, DK2, CV1 and the Vive and I have to say there's zero question in my mind that Oculus is FAR behind the curve. The Vive was love at first sight, the Oculus was quite the opposite. The Vive is stunning, not only because room-scale VR is fantastic. (I don't share the opinion that the future rests solely with room scale, there's plenty of stuff…

>as far as I can tell it only exists to lock people into a particular ecosystem.

sounds like a certain parent company..

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#64

Post by errantspark »

the_rosentotter wrote: post #33
GauntletWizard wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both. The Vive gets way more use, for one simple reason. Room scale is the future of VR. Some of the Oculus games are fantastic uses of the technology. Lucky's Tale has the camera on a rail based on where your character is, and EVE: Valkyrie has great mechanics for seated VR. But both of them feel like you're playing a game, albeit an immersive one, whereas room-scale vive games feel like I'm interacting with…

I am sceptical about this. People like to sit down for their entertainment, that is unlikely to change. Turning, swerving, swiveling, sure, but I bet most would quickly get fed up with having to get on their feet and move around in order to play their games.

I'm gonna have to back vessenes on this. It's really a very compelling experience. I'm sure there will be many games/experiences that you play seated, we do still sit in cars/planes/giant robots in real life after all.

However I very much doubt that such experiences will be the overwhelming majority. Dodging bullets and moving around to see things from different perspectives is WAY too fun.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#65

Post by nilkn »

cwyers wrote: post #58
nilkn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. I think the first-mover advantage gave them a big leg up, but people wouldn't have kept using the platform for 12 years if they were relying entirely on that. Competitors like Origin might have had a fighting chance if Valve hadn't constantly been creating a superior suite of products. You mention issues with Early Access and Greenlight, but these seem like trivial problems when compared to how solid t…

I think you're talking about a lot of features here that don't even amount to a percentage point of Steam users. Go look at the Steam Hardware and Software Survey results. SteamOS doesn't even show up in the top five Linux distros that Valve reports. There may be Windows users who are using the Big Picture Mode, but I'd guess not a whole lot of them. There may be Windows users who are using the Steam Controller, but…

Just to be clear, SteamOS is not needed for Steam Link and I've never used it. Steam Link just streams content from your PC.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#66

Post by davesque »

pekk wrote: post #62
davesque wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when you get a big player like Facebook involved...

It's strange, though, because Facebook wasn't in the games business like this before, so they did have a choice of what approach they were going to take. There's no real reason they couldn't have come out swinging for open standards, for example.

True, although Facebook is still a massive company. At a certain point, it's extremely hard to keep the hard-nosed business types out of the game and they're going to have a more closed-minded approach to things.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#67

Post by errantspark »

pekk wrote: post #61
istorical wrote: post #28

The discussion around Vive vs Rift and Valve vs Oculus is getting more and more emotionally clouded and "good guys vs bad guys" with each passing week. People are letting their own frustration around Oculus' poorly managed launch and non-existent PR affect their perspective on the situation. The fact is that although Oculus is adopting somewhat of a walled garden approach, people entirely overlook that Valve maintain…

It is grossly deceptive to say that Steam has a monopoly on games distribution when a vast number of the games on Steam are also distributed by other channels. I can't name any "Steam exclusives," which is more than I can say for Origin etc. Frankly it's absurd to psychoanalyze Steam, saying that it wants to do what other companies are doing, and not to recognize that if it wanted to do those things it could easily d…

I have to strongly agree here. Valve is really very nice about this.

From the Steamworks FAQ

>8. Do you require exclusivity for titles you sell on Steam?

>We think you should get your game in front of as many people as you can, therefore we do not require exclusivity on titles.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#68

Post by phoboslab »

errantspark wrote: post #53

Been working on VR side projects for 3 years now, I've built against the DK1, DK2, CV1 and the Vive and I have to say there's zero question in my mind that Oculus is FAR behind the curve. The Vive was love at first sight, the Oculus was quite the opposite. The Vive is stunning, not only because room-scale VR is fantastic. (I don't share the opinion that the future rests solely with room scale, there's plenty of stuff…

Valve's Lighthouse tracking system isn't particularly elegant from a usability standpoint. I see Oculus' and Valve's current systems as a temporary solution. The future likely is in inside out tracking (i.e. one or more cameras on the headset, looking out). Oculus is working on that. I'd be surprised if Valve isn't.

I agree with your comments on the Oculus platform. It's sad to see them building higher and higher walls for their garden.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#69

Post by jc4p »

phoboslab wrote: post #68
errantspark wrote: post #53

Been working on VR side projects for 3 years now, I've built against the DK1, DK2, CV1 and the Vive and I have to say there's zero question in my mind that Oculus is FAR behind the curve. The Vive was love at first sight, the Oculus was quite the opposite. The Vive is stunning, not only because room-scale VR is fantastic. (I don't share the opinion that the future rests solely with room scale, there's plenty of stuff…

Valve's Lighthouse tracking system isn't particularly elegant from a usability standpoint. I see Oculus' and Valve's current systems as a temporary solution. The future likely is in inside out tracking (i.e. one or more cameras on the headset, looking out). Oculus is working on that. I'd be surprised if Valve isn't. I agree with your comments on the Oculus platform. It's sad to see them building higher and higher wal…

Have you seen this demo of Jack McCauley's new laser based tracking? http://www.roadtovr.com/mts-virtual-reality-vr-tracking-syst...

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#70

Post by tk32 »

errantspark wrote: post #53

Been working on VR side projects for 3 years now, I've built against the DK1, DK2, CV1 and the Vive and I have to say there's zero question in my mind that Oculus is FAR behind the curve. The Vive was love at first sight, the Oculus was quite the opposite. The Vive is stunning, not only because room-scale VR is fantastic. (I don't share the opinion that the future rests solely with room scale, there's plenty of stuff…

It's so satisfying watching them get their just desserts after betraying their Kickstarter backers by taking the Facebook money and then going back on all their words about keeping the platform free for everybody. Meanwhile that acquisition kicked off a race among the other big players which Valve appears to be winning while having the best features. I mean, Valve isn't perfect, but they're a lot better than Facebook. Things seem to have worked out for the best for once.
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