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Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

theguardian.com

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Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#61

Post by mosdave »

humbleMouse wrote: post #7

When I am finishing a mushroom experience I usually have overwhelming feelings of love and am excited to start the next day. My brain is racing with all the possibilities of life and ways I can make things better for myself. People should be coached in how to have a good mushroom experience and what to expect. Nature + fresh fruit + good music + comfy place to sleep has always been a winning combination for me.

> People should be coached in how to have a good mushroom experience and what to expect.

Can't go wrong with Messrs. McKenna and Anton-Wilson.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#62

Post by apo »

From the study:

> A logical next step would be to carry out a placebo controlled randomised trial in which the level of therapist contact is consistent between conditions.

http://www.thelancet.com/pb/assets/raw/Lancet/pdfs/S22150366...

Depression studies are subject to well-known, powerful placebo effects, rendering this study's conclusions next to useless:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/are-antidepr...

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#63

Post by tim333 »

protomyth wrote: post #37
civilian wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know there's been an effort to use the word "Cannabis" as a way to sound legitimate, instead of pot/weed/marijuana. Do you react better to 'cannabis'?

You're right, I don't react better at all. They should stick with saying "THC and related compounds" instead. Its basically the same argument I have for the thorium folks, do not use "reactor" or "nuclear" in any naming or marketing.

Not sure that's going to wash with Thorium. Thorium reactors are very much full on nuclear reactors whatever you call them.

(See the decomissioning section on the 1964-1969 Oak Ridge thorium reactor if you think they are problem free https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-Salt_Reactor_Experiment...)

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#64

Post by CWuestefeld »

davidw wrote: post #38
sageabilly wrote: post #16

It's great to see the advances in research that are being done around Psilocybin, MDMA, and Ketamine as the results that are coming out look incredibly promising. That being said, godDAMN how in the hell is anyone ever going to take studies like this seriously when they're being reported as "Magic Mushrooms" in Scientific American of all places? This isn't raver kiddies eating dried who-knows-what out of ziplock bags…

> Scientific American My wife got that for a year, and I was quite unimpressed. It's not that detailed, mostly, and there's a lot of not very rigorous editorializing, from what I recall. Also, their 'please renew' campaign was quite deceiptful, sending us some kind of "you owe $$$!!!" notice that was really "you owe $$$ if you want to resubscribe".

I've had that with them, too. While it's true that they're not super detailed, I'm also not an expert in every field, and in the majority of articles I found it a good balance. But years later, perhaps I've moved beyond that.

I subscribed for several years until I got tired of their political agenda. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was a feature article on cleaning up landmines in southeast asia. Now, surely this is an important topic, but it's not what I come to a science magazine to read about.

From there I moved to American Scientist magazine, which I found a bit deeper in many cases, and much better regarding editorializing.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#65

Post by justsaysmthng »

Torgo wrote: post #3

It worked for me in my 20's, but I think if I tried it again in my late 30's, it might make things worse. Mushrooms don't let you hide problems from yourself.

That's a legitimate worry, but it all lifts during the trip, when you realize that it's totally not about that.

This is the reason for the depression lifting, by the way.

Depressed people are stuck in infinite loops mostly involving their 'social self'.

When they trip, they realize that "I" has so many more facets than just the social self (ego) - that "I" is also part (and at the center) of an infinite stream of energy - "Universe" , that time is an illusion, that all living beings are part of the same organism, etc, etc.

There is so much more to "I" than just our "problems", "goals" and "aspirations", but we tend to forget that. Psychedelics help you remember - and that's why they are so powerful and also scary for the establishment.

It helped me a lot more now (in my late 30s) than it did when I was younger. Now, when you understand "life" a lot better, you can really integrate the experience and derive positive and useful conclusions from it.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#66

Post by jmilloy »

sageabilly wrote: post #16

It's great to see the advances in research that are being done around Psilocybin, MDMA, and Ketamine as the results that are coming out look incredibly promising. That being said, godDAMN how in the hell is anyone ever going to take studies like this seriously when they're being reported as "Magic Mushrooms" in Scientific American of all places? This isn't raver kiddies eating dried who-knows-what out of ziplock bags…

Note that it was also published simultaneously in Nature, which is I think the original.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#67

Post by joslin01 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #29
humbleMouse wrote: post #7

When I am finishing a mushroom experience I usually have overwhelming feelings of love and am excited to start the next day. My brain is racing with all the possibilities of life and ways I can make things better for myself. People should be coached in how to have a good mushroom experience and what to expect. Nature + fresh fruit + good music + comfy place to sleep has always been a winning combination for me.

I'd definitely recommend doing this only with someone who has experience and is reasonable. On one of my last camping trips I saw two girls doing mushrooms which ended with one of them running around naked for hours screaming for help and attacking people she thought were demons. This only ended when a park ranger arrested her after a chase through the bushes. Her friend was just watching and smiling. I am not oppose…

It's true. I tell all my friends / family if you're going to do mushrooms for the first time, do them with me. I've seen the worst of trips and only my experience in knowing "I'm just high" kept me stable. Newcomers can't call on this experience so readily and will undoubtedly think they're the special exception that is going to die.

I also have more advice for newcomer shroomers: one thought can spiral downward or upward. Try your best to stay optimistic and open to the experience. You will not understand everything that happens (and this is a good thing because it's how people walk away feeling like they learned something), but you need to stay open and firm in your conviction that you're ok. As soon as you tell yourself "I think I'm going to die", you will create your own personal hell.

People think "innocence" isn't a feeling -- it's a judgment. They're wrong. Mushrooms evoke a feeling of innocence that brings the typical user back to a childhood state of mind. And while children are pretty stupid (no fault of their own), their perception is typically void of petty judgments adults cling to (by fault of their own). In this newfound awareness, just like a kid, you feel that anything is possible and yearn for adventure. It's a wonderful experience and is what makes mushrooms my #1 recommended drug.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#68

Post by mosdave »

Neff wrote: post #23
humbleMouse wrote: post #7

When I am finishing a mushroom experience I usually have overwhelming feelings of love and am excited to start the next day. My brain is racing with all the possibilities of life and ways I can make things better for myself. People should be coached in how to have a good mushroom experience and what to expect. Nature + fresh fruit + good music + comfy place to sleep has always been a winning combination for me.

That's interesting. I've had the opposite experience when ending my psychedelic experiences. I find that I get overly critical in my introspection and pick apart every perceived flaw, leaving me in a raw and negative mental state. Instead of leaving me feeling refreshed I am drained and dread the idea of going back to being "normal" where I become blind to those obvious flaws and complacent with living a sub-par life…

negative feedback: also useful outside the realm of amplifiers.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#69

Post by cryptoz »

apo wrote: post #62

From the study: > A logical next step would be to carry out a placebo controlled randomised trial in which the level of therapist contact is consistent between conditions. http://www.thelancet.com/pb/assets/raw/Lancet/pdfs/S22150366... Depression studies are subject to well-known, powerful placebo effects, rendering this study's conclusions next to useless: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/are-antidepr…

> next to useless

No study or scientific curiosity is "next to useless". You are being intentionally antagonistic and there's no need for that. All research has to start somewhere, and this study is a significant start to this field. In no way is it or its conclusions "next to useless".

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#70

Post by legulere »

sageabilly wrote: post #16

It's great to see the advances in research that are being done around Psilocybin, MDMA, and Ketamine as the results that are coming out look incredibly promising. That being said, godDAMN how in the hell is anyone ever going to take studies like this seriously when they're being reported as "Magic Mushrooms" in Scientific American of all places? This isn't raver kiddies eating dried who-knows-what out of ziplock bags…

That's also why I can't take medical cannabis serious. With medicine you want exact doses and cut all stuff that's potentially giving by-effects. So what you want is e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabiximols
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