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H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

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Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#61

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

halflings wrote: post #54

A lot of consultancy firms abuse this system, BUT: not all H1Bs are "cheap labor". If you are not American and want to work in a tech company in the US, you don't have much choice: 99% of the time, you have to get an H-1B. I once got a position in a very interesting startup in Palo Alto (with a salary significantly above average in the region), and the company was thrilled to have me join them (because there really i…

The way to fix this and to make sure that the H1-B is used for its intended purpose (to bring in extraordinary talent that is not present in the US) and not just for cheap labor, is instead of a lottery, to give it based on salary. The position that offers the highest salary gets an H1-B visa, then the next highest and so on until the quota of H1-B visas is used up.

How much a company is willing to pay is probably the best indication of the supply and demand for the talent.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#62

Post by eli_gottlieb »

halflings wrote: post #54

A lot of consultancy firms abuse this system, BUT: not all H1Bs are "cheap labor". If you are not American and want to work in a tech company in the US, you don't have much choice: 99% of the time, you have to get an H-1B. I once got a position in a very interesting startup in Palo Alto (with a salary significantly above average in the region), and the company was thrilled to have me join them (because there really i…

Not all H1-B's are cheap labor, but the plurality are. We all know how to fix the system (auction the visas by salary), but the abusers block the political will, as does the fact that Congress believes in cheap labor as a principle.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#63

Post by GreaterFool »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #62
halflings wrote: post #54

A lot of consultancy firms abuse this system, BUT: not all H1Bs are "cheap labor". If you are not American and want to work in a tech company in the US, you don't have much choice: 99% of the time, you have to get an H-1B. I once got a position in a very interesting startup in Palo Alto (with a salary significantly above average in the region), and the company was thrilled to have me join them (because there really i…

Not all H1-B's are cheap labor, but the plurality are. We all know how to fix the system (auction the visas by salary), but the abusers block the political will, as does the fact that Congress believes in cheap labor as a principle.

There's a trivial fix to the whole system: free the employees. As long as employees are completely tied to their employer wages will be lower. What else do you expect?

Forcing employers to pay a higher salary is a half-measure. I imagine they'd still prefer H1B's over locals for one simple reasons: you hire a H1B employee and they're gonna stick around for a few years. Even if the job sucks. It's worth to pay a bit more and significantly reduce turnover.

I'd love to see actual turnover stats of H1B employees versus American employees. I think it's a huge driving factor in hiring decisions, especially at giants like Facebook or Google.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#64

Post by supercanuck »

halflings wrote: post #54

A lot of consultancy firms abuse this system, BUT: not all H1Bs are "cheap labor". If you are not American and want to work in a tech company in the US, you don't have much choice: 99% of the time, you have to get an H-1B. I once got a position in a very interesting startup in Palo Alto (with a salary significantly above average in the region), and the company was thrilled to have me join them (because there really i…

>It baffles me that some people believe most non-American employees are just "cheap labor".

It is not a "belief" because they are cheaper. Everytime this topic comes up, a bunch of Ph.D's are shocked, SHOCKED! to learn that there are companies abusing the system and to learn that Infosys, Wipro and Tata are the leading H1-B Sponsors with an average salary of ~$73,000

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2015-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#65

Post by ones_and_zeros »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #61
halflings wrote: post #54

A lot of consultancy firms abuse this system, BUT: not all H1Bs are "cheap labor". If you are not American and want to work in a tech company in the US, you don't have much choice: 99% of the time, you have to get an H-1B. I once got a position in a very interesting startup in Palo Alto (with a salary significantly above average in the region), and the company was thrilled to have me join them (because there really i…

The way to fix this and to make sure that the H1-B is used for its intended purpose (to bring in extraordinary talent that is not present in the US) and not just for cheap labor, is instead of a lottery, to give it based on salary. The position that offers the highest salary gets an H1-B visa, then the next highest and so on until the quota of H1-B visas is used up. How much a company is willing to pay is probably th…

Who sets the quota? And how do we ensure the quota isn't lobbied to be resized to the point where it allows cheap labor?

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#66

Post by GreaterFool »

kinofcain wrote: post #9

None of the largest body shops being present on the list is sad. The H-1B program is all too clearly abused by large "consulting" firms to drive down wages and mistreat visa holding employees under the threat of deportation.

Well, this list is "willful violators". I'm pretty sure the body shops that "abuse" the system are well within the letter of the law. I don't approve of what they do, but if it's legal then it's legal. Blame the politicians, blame the government. If you don't like it, change the law, change the system. As long as it's legal and a profitable business they will keep on doing what they're doing.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#67

Post by GreaterFool »

kinofcain wrote: post #9

None of the largest body shops being present on the list is sad. The H-1B program is all too clearly abused by large "consulting" firms to drive down wages and mistreat visa holding employees under the threat of deportation.

Well, this list is "willful violators". I'm pretty sure the body shops that "abuse" the system are well within the letter of the law. I don't approve of what they do, but if it's legal then it's legal. Blame the politicians, blame the government. If you don't like it, change the law, change the system. As long as it's legal and a profitable business they will keep on doing what they're doing.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#68

Post by _of »

The H1B visa requires a minimum pay as it is right now. However, what some companies do when they sponsor a foreign worker for H1B is to hire the person part time on paper and thus being able to pay a lower wage, but still in practice requiring him or her to work full time. This is an anecdote I heard but I know it occurs. For many people, having the chance to come to the U.S. is like winning the lottery, and they will not report their employer.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#69

Post by GreaterFool »

GreaterFool wrote: post #63
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all H1-B's are cheap labor, but the plurality are. We all know how to fix the system (auction the visas by salary), but the abusers block the political will, as does the fact that Congress believes in cheap labor as a principle.

There's a trivial fix to the whole system: free the employees. As long as employees are completely tied to their employer wages will be lower. What else do you expect? Forcing employers to pay a higher salary is a half-measure. I imagine they'd still prefer H1B's over locals for one simple reasons: you hire a H1B employee and they're gonna stick around for a few years. Even if the job sucks. It's worth to pay a bit m…

edit: food for thought: think about Google and Go. Go is by design simple easy and boring. That's step 1. Now you need hundreds of people to write Go. Step 2: hire H1Bs. You're bored of writing simple code in Go day in day out? Well, we pay you well so get over it and you can't leave anyway even if you wanted. Step 3: programmers as a commodity.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#70

Post by Shivetya »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #65
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to fix this and to make sure that the H1-B is used for its intended purpose (to bring in extraordinary talent that is not present in the US) and not just for cheap labor, is instead of a lottery, to give it based on salary. The position that offers the highest salary gets an H1-B visa, then the next highest and so on until the quota of H1-B visas is used up. How much a company is willing to pay is probably th…

Who sets the quota? And how do we ensure the quota isn't lobbied to be resized to the point where it allows cheap labor?

what is going to prevent even further off shoring then? Software development, support, and even project management, are all easy candidates for off shoring and with ever improving conferencing tools, change management, and similar, its bound that there will be more competition.

So either the cost come down because they live and work here or the costs drop faster as the work simply goes off shore.

Far too many in the tech industry are first to jump at competition in their areas of expertise but mock those concerned about workers similar to those at Carrier whose jobs are moving to Mexico as either progress or being non competitive

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