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Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

theguardian.com

61–70 of 114 posts

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#61
post #50
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I can only summarize. On the starvation study it's merely one example that highlights how calorie restriction affects people. Yes, it's an extreme version, but it is different only in degree from any other calorie restriction, and when people try to reduce by X calories, it's probably a linear effect; more restriction, more of these effects. Oddly though, fasting tends not to have these effects, it's on…

> On the starvation study it's merely one example that highlights how calorie restriction affects people. Yes, it's an extreme version, but it is different only in degree from any other calorie restriction, and when people try to reduce by X calories, it's probably a linear effect; more restriction, more of these effects. Oddly though, fasting tends not to have these effects, it's only in sustained calorie restrictio…

> "No dude, you are ignoring the fact that these people did not have ample fat stores."

I don't think I am ignoring it. You seem to be asserting that their issues with calorie restriction were lack of body fat. There is no evidence for that I am aware of. A simple rejoinder based on anyone's experience, do fat people get hungry? If they do, why? They have all that energy available. But I don't need to rely on arguments like that, since in the vast corpus of research on this at this point, it's pretty well established that calorie restriction by itself (even with exercise) does not work long-term. The failure rate is astronomical and it is in part due to what plain old calorie restriction as we've been told to do it does to metabolic energy and also due to the psychology of hunger. Also, and this is very important, a full fast does not have these effects according to the evidence. People can totally abstain from food for very long periods of time (depending on body fat), with very little hunger. It is smaller scale calorie reductions, without breaks (like the breaks intermittent fasting provides) and without much dietary fat since fat is highly satiating, that cause these reactions to calorie restriction.

> "This is basically unrelated to your statements about insulin though, so don't conflate the two."

Again, I'm not. I was responding to the request for a source on the idea of energy output reduction in response to lower calories. I'm not claiming there is a link between energy output reduction and insulin.

Fat people can get energy from fat stores, just not in the way we are typically told. If it was impossible to get energy from fat no one would ever lose weight, which is trivially and obviously not true.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#62
post #51

Type 2 Diabetes can 100% be "cured" by a low fat vegan diet. Sorry you don't need a pill, you need to wake up and face the fact that you are poising yourself with your high fat diet. FAT causes diabetes (and high blood pressure and heart disease) NOT Sugar. Dietary fat clogs up your bloodstream preventing insulin from effectively doing it's job. http://www.amazon.com/Neal-Barnards-Program-Reversing-Diabet... https://…

Vegetarianism/veganism may help with diabetes, but it's probably not because of reducing fat intake.

"Less fat" has been the dominant message since the late 70's, and it's coincided with the explosion in the rate of consumption of sugar, overweight people and diabetics. The epidemiology suggests you're mistaken.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#63
post #55
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who use metformin seem to live longer than those who don't. Studies are about to be done to see if it actually works: http://www.wsj.com/articles/fountain-of-youth-drug-trial-has... "Behind the mania is a widely used, inexpensive generic pill for Type 2 diabetes called metformin. Scientists are planning a clinical trial to see if the drug can delay or prevent some of the most devastating diseases of advanced a…

There's no doubt about it that metformin does lower your BG. Depending on the person though the side-effects can be pretty nasty. Personally I had a lot of stomach problems (which I've never had before or since) and I found that I was unable to exercise because I would have a hypo after just 10 minutes. I also had trouble staying awake, I'd often be slumped in my chair and would need to take a 20min siesta after lunc…

You needed to reduce your insulin to compensate for the metformin.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#64
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard human digestion system is really really good at breaking down sugar very quickly. Enzymes dominate the process, not microorganisms.

But the word "dominates" should really be emphasized there because there is growing evidence that gut microbiota can help with breaking down lactose even when you lack the ability to produce lactase. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17927751 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11157352

It isn't that nuanced; lactose intolerance is uncomfortable because there are microorganisms breaking down the lactose and releasing gas (and what not). Those studies are looking at whether bacteria that do not produce as much gas can colonize our digestive systems.

If the lactose passed through intact, it wouldn't be a problem. If enzymes weren't responsible for breaking down sucrose and there were bacteria doing it, HFCS would probably be even more popular.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#65
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no doubt about it that metformin does lower your BG. Depending on the person though the side-effects can be pretty nasty. Personally I had a lot of stomach problems (which I've never had before or since) and I found that I was unable to exercise because I would have a hypo after just 10 minutes. I also had trouble staying awake, I'd often be slumped in my chair and would need to take a 20min siesta after lunc…

You needed to reduce your insulin to compensate for the metformin.

I've never taken insulin personally, I was on metformin and linagliptin.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, completely ignoring the fact that most people who get Type-2 diabetes are genetically predisposed to it and it can also be caused by things like repeated bouts of pancreatitis and EPI. Considering MonadQueen said "* 60%* of type-2 diabetics" and " Obese Type-2s" (emphasis mine) I wonder where you got the idea that she as "completely ignoring" anything. > But no, let's shame everyone who is fat for being overind…

Not everyone is fat because of issues of self control. Hypothyroidism, Cushing's syndrome, PCOS, complications of depression. The accusation was that these cases are self-inflicted. It's WAY more complicated than that.

> Hypothyroidism

Accounts for about 10 extra pounds on a normal-sized human. Didn't stop me from losing 35 pounds in four months when I was 100 pounds overweight.

> PCOS

Same as above, assuming PCOS is a cause and not an effect. There seems to be some debate on that in the Ob-Gyn community.

> Cushing's syndrome

Cushing's is fairly rare, and is usually curable.

> complications of depression

Yes, depression is a big psychological cause of overeating. Been there. Disentangling the depression from the food is part of the therapy, though. Particularly since it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle where depression begets comfort eating which begets more depression.

> The accusation was that these cases are self-inflicted. It's WAY more complicated than that.

Always self-inflicted? No. More complicated? Yes.

However, except in rare circumstances every underlying condition is treatable or curable. There are synthetic hormones for hypothyroidism. There are cortisol blockers, surgeries, and other treatments for Cushing's. PCOS is incurable but treatable, ironically considering the subject by weight loss. Depression is treatable, though it can be a struggle.

Obesity may not be self-inflicted in all cases, but it is almost always resolvable. I'm resolving it, despite having two of the things you listed. You can't just throw your hands up and complain about "conditions" as an excuse to not do anything about the problem. Hell, everything you listed has potentially serious problems if untreated even if it doesn't cause weight gain.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#67

It's estimated that 60% of type-2 diabetics would no longer be affected if they simply lost weight and got down to a healthy BMI. Obese Type-2s should really be called "Type F" because it's not fair to people who didn't self-inflict their condition.

We banned your many accounts from HN because of what I can only call obsessive obesity trolling. That's an abuse of this site and one you've done a lot of damage with.

If you want to be unbanned you're welcome to email us at hn@ycombinator.com and promise not to do this any more.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#68
post #9

actually this worked for me, I had high blood sugar and high blood pressure and I solved both with low carbs diet and eating healthy. It's like the article say, eating healthy will help no matter what but yeah it's hard to stop eating junk.

high carb diet works too. there's no junk food. there's nothing junky in a hamburger. on the other hand, it is unhealthy if you eat hamburger every day or so. http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/ here's american diabetes association recommending a normal healthy high-carb diet with low GI foods. it is also advised, funnily, that fruit consumption shouldn't be restricted.

I'd warn people not to pay too much attention to the advice that the american diabetes association provides. The targets it recommends are well known to cause damage to the body (you should be avoiding anything above a BG of 140 at any time) and it's dietary recommendations are contrary to the advice I've ever received from anyone that has had good results maintaining diabetes. Just to pick up on the two points you mention, I would never consume fruit unless accompanied by exercise and a low-carb diet is recommended by any consultant or nutrionist that I've ever spoken to.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#69
post #25
post #18

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes about a year and a half ago, at the time I had an HBA1C of 8.2 (6.0 is the top end of normal). The first thing I did when I got home was google "cure for diabetes", the newcastle diet is what came up. After 6 months of the usual medication (metformin etc.) I decided to give it a go. You can see my log, which includes medication, supplements, exercise, total calories per day and BG…

Given that Type 2 diabetes is generally believed to be caused by diet, it makes sense that diet could fix it as well. My personal hypothesis is that some people have intestinal bacteria that are really, really good at breaking down sugar very quickly. So when you eat high GI foods, your gut turns them into glucose very quickly releases them into your blood, and your body has to deal accordingly. IMO that would help e…

Are there any particular probiotics you'd recommend? I've heard many good things about General Biotics.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#70
post #10

Michael Mosley's documentary, ”Eat, Fast and Live Longer” (about the health benefits of calorie restriction) is also interesting in the context of this article: https://vimeo.com/103656060 the plank (an exercise to help lose excess fat round the stomach) This is incorrect. The plank is an excellent exercise for building core strength (much better than situps), but it does not help lose excess fat around the stomach m…

the plank (an exercise to help lose excess fat round the stomach)

Cringe. Hard to take the writer seriously after this statement. The rest of the article seemed fine so I googled around to see if there was some stunning new research showing the plank (or any specific movement) spot-reducing fat. Nope.

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