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Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

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Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#61
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that approach is that not all transgender people elect to have operations, so making that the minimum bar is unreasonable. A much more reasonable (non-fear mongering) approach is to use the gender the person identifies with. I don't know how you set that bar, maybe it's obvious, maybe it requires a note from a physician or similar. I think it would be fairly obvious to discern someone who's actually…

The problem with that approach is women don't feel comfortable using the bathroom with a man, regardless of what he claims to be. So who's rights are more important? The born women's or the born man's?

I agree its an imperfect standard -- how could one ever possibly determine what gender a person identifies with for legal purposes? But, if one must come up with some legal standard or other (which we shouldn't), I think GP's suggestion is better than focusing on genitalia or the gender assigned at birth.

Ultimately what makes someone comfortable or uncomfortable in a bathroom is the gender that they perceive others to be. They will usually not know what another person has between their legs, or what gender is written on a person's birth certificate. They just know what they look like and how they behave. And I'd bet that these criteria will better track a person's subjective gender identity than anything else. This is especially likely when one considers the fact that transgender people, like anyone else, will not want to make other people in the bathroom uncomfortable--or to be made uncomfortable themselves.

Edit: Here's another thing to think about. If we're really just worried about who is more uncomfortable, remember that for most third parties in the bathroom, this discomfort will be mild and fleeting. "That was weird, that women kinda looked like a man." But for the transgender person, the discomfort will be deeply felt and repeated daily for the rest of their lives. (Until, that is, they move to a better state.)

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#62
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy, make all stalls unisex; add a separator so the urinals are not clearly visible. Or more expensively, just have individual bathrooms. As an aside, if you are ever in other parts of the world, the East, many bathrooms are open to the world -no doors, and people do alright.

A company I have worked for tried this, changing a few single bathrooms from M and W to unisex. The women protested because cleanliness went way down. They went back to M and W after 2 weeks.

That's because habits are hard to change. But give it time (or turnover) and it'd be fine. Have the cleaners come in more often and make sure everyone is responsible for keeping the stalls clean. Education.

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#63
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that approach is that not all transgender people elect to have operations, so making that the minimum bar is unreasonable. A much more reasonable (non-fear mongering) approach is to use the gender the person identifies with. I don't know how you set that bar, maybe it's obvious, maybe it requires a note from a physician or similar. I think it would be fairly obvious to discern someone who's actually…

The problem with that approach is women don't feel comfortable using the bathroom with a man, regardless of what he claims to be. So who's rights are more important? The born women's or the born man's?

What about the trans man who's now stuck in the women's room? Now everyone's uncomfortable. Oops.

Or, more realistically, if your presented gender doesn't match your birth sex, or if you're "weird" and someone feels like challenging you under this law, you now don't have the right to use a public restroom. Just be honest and admit this is your goal instead of cherry-picking a single scenario.

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I haven't seen discussed is the real objection going on is that NC insists you use the bathroom as defined by your birth certificate, and you can change that post-op. So people think that's too onerous, so what _should_ the standard be? Should you simply file something stating you are whatever gender? Do you have to present as the gender to some degree? Who decides if you are doing it enough? Etc.

The standard should be "who gives a fuck what's in the pants of the person in the next stall?"

I would also like to think like this but it is more complex issue.

I see that there are at least 3 aspects: physiological comfort, hygiene and security.

I think that your proposal falls into physiological comfort category but I am afraid that changing personal attitude does not change the other two aspects.

So I would assume that women are a little better off with separate toilets in the given state of the society.

Would be interesting to see any research that tries to answer these questions.

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#65

Here's a simple idea that would render these "bathroom bills" null and void. Neuter them, if you will. Stop building multi-occupant public restrooms with a gender designation, and instead build several single-occupant public restrooms with no gender designation. Added bonus: Not only do we disarm these attempts to discriminate against transgendered people, we also avoid all the social awkwardness that comes from mult…

We had single-person restrooms at my previous work, shared by multiple companies.

In one building they were gender neutral. As far as I can see, everyone was fine with it. Then we moved to another building where the bathrooms had gender pictograms on them although they were identical in every other respect. Some males eventually went to the female-stamped bathroom when the other was occupied. And someone attached a note in the female bathroom to remind everyone that this was a female-only bathroom…

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the notion of pornographers fighting for equality a joke? XHamster seems to have a pretty progressive corporate view towards sexuality. Obviously not all the content on the site is that way, but you seem to be implying pornography is inherently bad? Besides, you're naive if you think the Republican lawmakers who push this type of legislation are actually so wholesome that this is totally irrelevant.

I'll go further than imply, and outright state that pornography is inherently and irredeemably bad. Enough has been written and said about it, so I'll leave that to you to sort out. I think though that for one of several dozen companies to shut down services just means that people will get it elsewhere, republican or not. They're just trying to look progressive, but real progress is fundamentally incompatible with th…

I'll go further than imply, and outright state that pornography is inherently and irredeemably bad.

I agree with you, but porn is a small part of the larger problem that modernity presents us with hypernormal stimuli absolutely everywhere. Television, movies, calorie-dense foods, even things like HVAC. Decrying porn without decrying all forms of hypernormal stimuli seems odd.

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#67

So a porn website (by far, the most effective mean to objectify women) is protesting a law that adds a new layer of social pressure towards women and girls. I don't see men having a problem with women entering mens room. But I do see women feeling uncomfortable with a man entering woman's room. No matter how far will the theory of subjective gender go, it will take decades, if ever, until women and men will simply ig…

Isn't Washington State (or Seattle) having an issue with this? Men (who are not trans) going into and using the ladies' room?

In the end, you're leaving it up to the person's "feelings" as to where to use the restroom.

Hell, I belong to a gym that has a separate section for women only. How would most women feel if a trans* walked in and started 'working out'?

While I have to agree with individual liberty - live however you want, the question remains how to effectively force other people to accept it, because thats what is going on.

This is all based on the theory that men are sex-crazed pigs anyway. What's wrong with uni-sex restrooms anyway?

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#68
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people introducing this bill aren't going to be the type to be sad that porn is being blocked in their state. If anything they'll see it as a win/win.

I'm willing to bet there are pro-porn people that also want to enforce the status quo on public bathrooms.

The status quo is what we had before. This law changes which bathrooms people are allowed to use: https://twitter.com/JayShef/status/712845760287494144

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#69
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard should be "who gives a fuck what's in the pants of the person in the next stall?"

Most people do. Bsic decency should be maintained in human society.

If you're seeing enough of a transgender person in the bathroom to be able to determine if they're pre-op or post-op, chances are you're the one violating "basic decency" by being a creeper.

Re: Porn site xHamster blocks North Carolina users to protest anti-LGBT law

#70
post #67

So a porn website (by far, the most effective mean to objectify women) is protesting a law that adds a new layer of social pressure towards women and girls. I don't see men having a problem with women entering mens room. But I do see women feeling uncomfortable with a man entering woman's room. No matter how far will the theory of subjective gender go, it will take decades, if ever, until women and men will simply ig…

Isn't Washington State (or Seattle) having an issue with this? Men (who are not trans) going into and using the ladies' room? In the end, you're leaving it up to the person's "feelings" as to where to use the restroom. Hell, I belong to a gym that has a separate section for women only . How would most women feel if a trans* walked in and started 'working out'? While I have to agree with individual liberty - live howe…

> Isn't Washington State (or Seattle) having an issue with this? Men (who are not trans) going into and using the ladies' room?

No.

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